Carriage Lamps 1880's

[Andy873]

Recently, during my railway line research I came across a newspaper article (7/8/1886) stating that the new lamp room building at Great Harwood station was almost complete. All that was left was to put the roof on. The article goes on to say this building could hold 620 carriage lamps. Harwood's four lane carriage sidings were installed two years before.

Questions:
what would a carriage lamp look like in the 1880's? The line was an LYR one.
How many lamps would an LYR carriage have had around this time?
What fuel did they burn?
And what about the fumes from them, how would they have been vented?
Presume they were suspended from the carriage ceiling?

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[Rescars]

I am no expert on the L&Y, but I'd guess normal practice in the 1880s would have been to provide one paraffin lamp for each compartment, or possibly one shared between two compartments (in third class). When required, I think these would have been lit and dropped into place through the carriage ceiling into a glazed holder, with the lamp ventilating to the atmosphere through a lidded chimney. Similar draft-tolerant technology to loco head and tail lamps.

Gas lighting had been around for carriages since the 1870s, but didn't really take off until the gas mantle had been invented in the mid 1880s - just as the Great Harwood lamp room got its roof! It's pretty likely that, as gas lighting would have been fitted only to express stock in the first instance, it would have taken quite a while before oil carriage lamps (and the facilities of your lamp room) were no longer required.

 

[randyrippley]

By "gas" lighting what is actually meant? Compressed town gas? Or carbide generated acetylene?

 

[John Webb]

According to "The Oxford Companion to British Railway History" the first gas lighting was using town gas. This was followed by 'compressed oil gas stored in cylinders usually beneath the vehicles...', a system invented by Julius Pintsch in the 1870s. But it doesn't explain what 'Oil Gas' was!

 

[hexagon789]

But it doesn't explain what 'Oil Gas' was!

Blau gas perhaps?

 

[Rescars]

Blau gas perhaps?

Wikipedia suggests that Pinsch gas was a less pure form of blau gas.

Pinsch gas was apparently first used for train lighting in the UK by the LNWR on the Irish Mail in 1874.

Although it apparently gave effective lighting it could prove dangerous in accidents. For instance, the troop train destroyed in the Quintinshill fire had, most unfortunately, been fully recharged with Pinsch gas just before the smash.

 

[hexagon789]

Wikipedia suggests that Pinsch gas was a less pure form of blau gas.

Pinsch gas was apparently first used for train lighting in the UK by the LNWR on the Irish Mail in 1874.

Although it apparently gave effective lighting it could prove dangerous in accidents. For instance, the troop train destroyed in the Quintinshill fire had, most unfortunately, been fully recharged with Pinsch gas just before the smash.

Thank you. So a similar idea but different composition and volatility.

 

[Rescars]

Thank you. So a similar idea but different composition and volatility.

So it would seem, but I think we may need the help of a chemist if we want further explanation.

 

[Andy873]

Would these carriage lamps be lit even during daytime? I'm thinking here about going through a tunnel.

And what about such lamp rooms as this one, at what point would they become redundant? the big four period perhaps?

 

[John Webb]

Would these carriage lamps be lit even during daytime? I'm thinking here about going through a tunnel.

And what about such lamp rooms as this one, at what point would they become redundant? the big four period perhaps?

Probably roundabout then, if not earlier. My source quoted in my post #4 above indicates that early electrical lighting was tried out in the 1880s but it was the development by J Stone of an efficient axle-driven dynamo charging batteries in the 1890s that led to such lighting being used. Electric lighting for new carriages was general after WW1, but some gas lighting in carriages continued into BR days, ending in the 1950s.

Looking at Wikipedia, 'Oil Gas' was derived by the decomposition of mineral oils to form Naptha stored under pressure. It is somewhat similar to coal gas but does not contain the poisonous Carbon Monoxide resulting from the decomposition of coal to form Town Gas. (I'm a physicist, not a chemist, so can't go into detail about the actual constituents.)

 

[Rescars]

Would these carriage lamps be lit even during daytime? I'm thinking here about going through a tunnel.

As it would only be practicable to light these lamps when there was time to do so, I would guess that they were lit in time to provide light during hours of darkness only. At other times passengers on daytime trains might have to put up without lighting when travelling through tunnels. IIRC Box Tunnel was gaslit when first opened to allay passengers fears of going underground in the dark.

Others may know if these lamps had one or two wicks (which would have provided back-up if one wick failed) and how long such a lamp might burn on a full reservoir of fuel. By comparison, how long does a full tank last in a tail lamp, or a signal lamp for that matter?

 

[John Webb]

.......Others may know if these lamps had one or two wicks (which would have provided back-up if one wick failed) and how long such a lamp might burn on a full reservoir of fuel. By comparison, how long does a full tank last in a tail lamp, or a signal lamp for that matter?

I've no idea about carriage oil lamps, but tail lamps and hand lamps as used by railway staff had around a 24hour burning capacity. Signal lamps had generally an eight-day capacity but were replaced/refilled every seven days.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Here’s a LNER “Pot Lamp”. These were inserted into the coach ceiling through a flap in the roof. I’ve seen similar shaped lamps from other companies so perhaps a L&Y example is similar.

Photo GWRA

 

[Rescars]

Splendid photo! Interesting to realise that these lamps were still being made less than 100 years ago. I wonder when the last new ones were made. Sobering to realise just how recently we have entered the electric lighting era.

 

[Irascible]

Splendid photo! Interesting to realise that these lamps were still being made less than 100 years ago. I wonder when the last new ones were made. Sobering to realise just how recently we have entered the electric lighting era.

My mother can remember gas lighting. Presumably grouping companies inherited some stock that hadn't even made it to gas lighting, and I guess it was easier just to construct new lamps than convert them for whatever short life they had left.

 

[Taunton]

Oil lamps were easy, many country people were familiar with them from outbuildings, and indeed some cottages, with no electricity. Stations in particular would have a range, quite apart from those in trains. They were, incidentally, the only form of footplate illumination for as long as steam locomotives lasted, apart from an odd few like Bulleid Pacifics which had electric light. Likewise light inside guards vans at night. Hands up who can still "trim" a lamp (I see there's a YouTube on how to do it ) .

Gas light was well and good provided there was a supply, which in many country cases there wasn't. Gas tank wagons, like the GWR Cordon, about nine big cylindrical gas cylinders mounted in a stout frame, meant a lot of cost and fiddle to get the gas distributed.

Electric carriage lighting was long by axle-driven dynamos charging storage batteries. This also was not reliable for low mileage, low speed use. Charging the coach on the Tiverton Junction to Hemyock branch, 20mph limit and just a few short trips a day, was insufficient. When the loco ran to Exeter shed and back for coal, they used to take the coach with them just to charge it up.

 

[stuving]

Was any use made by the railways of petrol air gas (or just air gas) - a weak petrol-air mixture, distributed in pipes much like town gas? Alarming as it sounds, this was quite widely used for larger houses too far from town to get a gas supply. Probably at its peak just before WW1, then soon overtaken by electricity for lighting and cooking, heating never having been its strong point.

 

[Rescars]

On the topic of different gases, does anyone know if the railways made much use of acetylene. This was commonly used for car and bicycle headlamps in the Edwardian era?

IIRC the LMS built kitchen cars with gas lighting into the 1930s, but not using Pintsch gas. Instead propane wes used - which was also the fuel for powering the ovens, stoves, hot water, still boilers, etc.

 

[Ashley Hill]

On the topic of different gases, does anyone know if the railways made much use of acetylene. This was commonly used for car and bicycle headlamps in the Edwardian era?

Yes they did. Here’s a GWR carbide lamp,water was dripped onto the carbide to produce acetylene. I have a LNER lamp of the same design.

Photo GWRA

 

[Rescars]

Yes they did. Here’s a GWR carbide lamp,water was dripped onto the carbide to produce acetylene. I have a LNER lamp of the same design.
View attachment 157879
Photo GWRA

That's a fine looking piece of kit. Is it known who were the lucky ones who were equipped with these lamps? Interesting that you have a LNER example. I wonder when they went out of use.

 

[Andy873]

@Ashley Hill Some great photos there, thank you.

I can't add anymore to the topic except to say thanks for all the replies, interesting as always!