Class 345 progress

[spark001uk]

Ah ok. I know some of the other tocs change timetable on 21st. I was hoping to get a travelcard and do the maidenhead 387, a swt 707 and a 345 all on the same day if I can.

 

[samuelmorris]

Rather ambitious but certainly quite the day out!

I'm intending to catch one home on the first day, but will see how things go. Newly introduced units have a habit of being elusive!

 

[simple simon]

Normally on the London Underground the train driver opens and closes the passenger doors whilst on the mainline (and DLR) the train driver (or guard, where such still exist) unlocks and closes the passenger doors but it is for passengers to press a button to actually open the doors.

But, with Crossrail being a hybrid mainline service that includes subterranean operations too so will Class 345 passengers need to press buttons to open the doors - or not?

Or, will it be that when calling at Underground stations the doors will automatically open whilst when above ground the passengers will have to press buttons?

Another issue here is that the new subterranean platforms will feature platform screen doors, and here in the UK it is usual for all the doors to open automatically on systems which have these. (London Jubilee Line and various airport systems)

Simon

 

[TheDavibob]

But, with Crossrail being a hybrid mainline service that includes subterranean operations too so will passengers need to press buttons to open the doors - or not?

Class 700 on Thameslink have auto-opening doors in the core and push button otherwise, so it seems hybrid is at least possible.

 

[MCR247]

The core stations have platform edge doors so they'll all automatically open in the core

 

[samuelmorris]

I would imagine the same as Thameslink - core stations will have auto open all doors, otherwise behave like mainline stock where the doors are only released, not automatically opened.

 

[Goldfish62]

Last I heard was likely to be 24th May, however I don't believe this has been announced officially yet.

An insider source tells me that are still testing issues.

 

[Kite159]

An insider source tells me that are still testing issues.

I do hope it isn't the door buttons becoming unstuck after being tested

 

[spark001uk]

I do hope it isn't the door buttons becoming unstuck after being tested

Could well be!

I like the fact the Siemens desiro buttons have made their way onto the doors of the waiting rooms at East Croydon, it's almost as though Siemens built the waiting rooms! (in fact they might do I don't know?).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I like the fact the Siemens desiro buttons have made their way onto the doors of the waiting rooms at East Croydon, it's almost as though Siemens built the waiting rooms! (in fact they might do I don't know?).

The buttons are actually a generic design being offered left, right and centre by the supplier... There was a whole stand at Railtex that was covered with buttons of various designs; I think there's a picture of it in Snapper's Railtex collection which he posted a link to in the photography sub-forum.

 

[samuelmorris]

Tweet from the @tflrail account yesterday reads as below. First official mention of a date that I'm aware of?


Replying to @andrewstokes1
Hi, new class 345 trains are not in service as yet they will be from 22nd May. Have a good day.

 

[simple simon]

I've seen the Aventra testing quite a few times (I think it was 002 out that I saw today) and I've spoken with the staff behind introducing it. They have stated the first train will be Tuesday 23rd May, and it will be a special trip that isn't actually on timetable or RTT it seems (the last time I checked).

It will be the 0945 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield working, before sitting at Shenfield for a while whilst the media and figureheads get their share of the new trains (and food as well) and then return closer to the afternoon I think it was. From the 24th May, it will start to form the daily, regular diagram on TfL Rail.

I've just looked at RTT and its still not showing... I assume that my search parameters were correct (all services, around 0945)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LST/2017/05/22/0945?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Maybe its such a "hush hush" special working that its been given a special 'non-public' status, such as one might expect to find allocated to a train carrying top members of the royal family.

Simon

 

[MCR247]

I've just looked at RTT and its still not showing... I assume that my search parameters were correct (all services, around 0945)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LST/2017/05/22/0945?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Maybe its such a "hush hush" special working that its been given a special 'non-public' status, such as one might expect to find allocated to a train carrying top members of the royal family.

Simon

Not appearing in RTT (a whole week before the actual day as well!) doesn't not equate to it being top secret. Not all workings show up in RTT

 

[spark001uk]

Not appearing in RTT (a whole week before the actual day as well!) doesn't not equate to it being top secret. Not all workings show up in RTT

Correct. In fact I quite often see test trains with a (Q) runs as required descriptor actually run and still not be activated on the system. I expect they should be, and someone invariably gets moaned at, but I guess sometimes it's just too short notice to be practical.

 

[spark001uk]

So I get to LST a min or two after the 345 at 1357 leaves, so I think ok I'll nip up to Stratford and see it on its way back. So what does it do? Comes back as far as Ilford and turns into the depot. #@&£!!

Will it come back out today I wonder? Probably not knowing my luck!

 

[ScotGG]

Any recent pics of the interior?

 

[hwl]

A few technical questions having seen one in the flesh for the first time if anyone might be able to answer:

1) There is a relatively big (about 1.4m long) shiny metal box next to the pantograph in the pantograph well just above the doors, does that just contain the Vacuum Circuit Breaker (or equivalent - does any one use SF6 etc.?) or is there loads more inside the box too as it seems a bit big for a just a VCB?

2) There is some kind of cooling unit with radiators near but not adjacent* to each motor bogie...
[About 1.5m gap]
Are they oil or water/glycol cooling the traction motors?? [which would help keep the motor footprint small given the inside frame bogies have less space, ABB offer liquid cooling on some of their tram / LRV traction motors] Or are the radiators there to help cool a traction motor blower motor? (A little unlikely given the relatively small size of motor hidden between the radiators).
The Aventra traction motors are 225kW unlike the 250kW electrostar or 200kw Capitalstar traction motors so something completely new to the UK cooling wise could make sense???

This excellent video (not mine!!) nicely shows both items at 1m39s when the unit is stationary while on the delivery run:
https://youtu.be/9gQUZ_-LUa0?t=99
(url links to 1m39s)

*there is an air compressor and reservoir immediately adjacent to each bogie (motored or not) and 4 axles per unit also have sander units (on motor bogies on the inner ends of cars 1, 3, 7 & 9) in the space round the compressors /reservoirs.

As an observation the traction set up is
7 car:
2-B.B-2.B-B.2-2.B-B.2-B.B-2 (4 & 6th cars missing)

9 car:
2-B.B-2.B-B.B-2.2-2.2-B.B-B.2-B.B-2

On both the 7 & 9 car units there are only 4 inverter boxes (with combined auxilliary power outputs) with the ones on car 1 / 9 supplying 4 traction motors (on Cars 1+2 and 8+9 respectively) and the ones on car 3 / 7 supplying 4 motors on 7 car units (4 on car 3 or car 7 respectively) and 6 motors on the 9 car units (additionally 2 motors on car 4 or 6 respectively). A slight break from electrostar tradition of 1 inverter per car (bogie).

 

[macaronlover]

Links to very large images:

http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4159/34759134885_c32aba8ec7_k.jpg


http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4251/34719089196_bf1884c321_k.jpg


http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4272/34759141165_14481a3a6d_k.jpg

 

[MCR247]

I'm a bit disappointed to see the screens seem to be the standard electrostar ones, surely they can do better than that with all the room it (seems) to have?

 

[macaronlover]

I'm a bit disappointed to see the screens seem to be the standard Electrostar ones, surely they can do better than that with all the room it (seems) to have?

Couldn't agree more.

 

[AlexNL]

These were never shown in the promotional video.

They were! Here's a shot from the TfL promotional video:

I think these dot matrix displays are fine for the role which they're fulfilling. They are easy to read under nearly all light circumstances, and if one LED breaks you don't end up with an unreadable display.

Full-colour LCD displays might looks fancy, but they are more expensive, have a higher tendency to break and most importantly: for visually impaired passengers it is much harder to read LCD screens than it is to read dot matrix displays.

 

[Tom m]

This is a new design of train so it seems sensible to me to not put too many "new" things on the train, I much happier seeing proven bits of kit on the train rather than having a completely clean sheet design.

I know this is only an information display, but I would like to think that it is reflective of the approach taken with the rest of the train design and the risk of new elements of the design failing in service has been reduced.

 

[class387]

Is it still planned for entry into service next week? Has testing been completed/

 

[47802]

Couldn't agree more. These were never shown in the promotional video. This is one of several disappointments.

What disappointments are they then?

Aren't they having new LCD screens on the inside, the dot matrix on the outside seems good enough to me. The LCD screens might give more info but the dot matrix screens stand out more.

Any case just to emphasis the North South divide the idea of having any kind of screen on Northern Rail is kind of Sci Fi technology.

 

[sneaky_1982]

does anyone know what time the new 345's will be leaving shenfield on monday?

 

[samuelmorris]

They're two line, what's wrong with that? The resolution of that is huge compared to the ones fitted to a lot of modern generation stock, even the 700s I believe. 'Liverpool Street' fits comfortably in only half of one line - that name doesn't even fit on most external dot matrix displays!

Having an LCD exterior display wouldn't really work in my opinion - the viewing angles it needs are too great and it has to compete with direct sunlight, reflections etc. - the only colour outdoor displays that really work are those retina burning LED pixel boards, which apart from being too big to fit to the side of a train, also aren't really that clear up close. No, as far as I'm concerned it pretty much looks like they've nailed the side destination display on the 345, as long as they program it correctly and there are enough of them.

 

[AM9]

... Any case just to emphasis the North South divide the idea of having any kind of screen on Northern Rail is kind of Sci Fi technology.

There's that chip again.

 

[PR1Berske]

There's that chip again.

A chip well served, though. We northerners are always bottom of the list for anything as modern as the units shown here!

 

[samuelmorris]

Not wishing to add fuel to the fire, but round in this neck of the woods, the North beat us to it - 333s have side dot matrix displays, but 357s don't and certainly neither did any of the BR stock.

 

[macaronlover]

What disappointments are they then?

Aren't they having new LCD screens on the inside, the dot matrix on the outside seems good enough to me. The LCD screens might give more info but the dot matrix screens stand out more.

Any case just to emphasis the North South divide the idea of having any kind of screen on Northern Rail is kind of Sci Fi technology.

Please ignore what I said about disappointments - I forgot about viewing angles & maintenance. It would have been better if the screen was wider & there were more LED screens per carriage (there's only 1 + the carriage is quite long).