It was actually a DfT idea which Stagecoach said no to.It was a fanciful idea by worst group that went badly wrong.
Agreed, whoever decided to get 442s in, it was quite a bad decision to makeWaste of money?
They have spent millions trying to get these clapped out old trains working when everyone else is leasing new stock. It was a fanciful idea by worst group that went badly wrong. Don't bank on too many memories of the old days being revived either. They have ripped out the best bits (snug) and squashed in a load of ironing board seats.
Why? They're required from December when most should have been retractioned.
DfT were at that stage very keen to get 442s back on the network.
I don't think they really had a choice, they were forced into the 442s so they decided promoting was the best choice over not promoting them.For someone who didn't want to do it, worst group certainly pumped out the publicity (until it went wrong)!
Trouble is when this whole charade started I think that the 442s were the only available 3rd rail units. Of course now we have the 365s, soon the 458s and possibly the 350/2s (are these able to be converted to 750v?)Meanwhile, the poor 365's sit abandoned at Crewe....
They've got a future they're going to be converted to 3 cars and rewired to run over they Tyne and Wear voltage see this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hsts-replacing-voyagers-for-the-cross-country-services.209502/Meanwhile, the poor 365's sit abandoned at Crewe....
I think all UK Desiro's can be converted to 3rd rail operation, but definitely all 350's (as they were originally 450's).possibly the 350/2s (are these able to be converted to 750v?)
So what about all the 319s that have been and still are sat around and will work on 3rd rail off the bat...?Trouble is when this whole charade started I think that the 442s were the only available 3rd rail units. Of course now we have the 365s, soon the 458s and possibly the 350/2s (are these able to be converted to 750v?)
Meanwhile, the poor 365's sit abandoned at Crewe....
The whole point of the charade was to meet the apparent passenger groups insistence on 23 metre end door stock, with 2+2 seating. It was really all about their envious comparisons with the Bournemouth line, nothing to do with maximising seating capacity on the Portsmouth Direct...Trouble is when this whole charade started I think that the 442s were the only available 3rd rail units. Of course now we have the 365s, soon the 458s and possibly the 350/2s (are these able to be converted to 750v?)
Are there enough of them? Once we discount the ones that, for better or worse, are destined to be 769s, plus the remaining Northern and LNWR fleet, and the Orion ones, there are not that many going begging.So what about all the 319s that have been and still are sat around and will work on 3rd rail off the bat...?
So can they now convert 350s for the line and say ‘do you want working trains or comfy ones that don’t work?The whole point of the charade was to meet the apparent passenger groups insistence on 23 metre end door stock, with 2+2 seating. It was really all about their envious comparisons with the Bournemouth line, nothing to do with maximising seating capacity on the Portsmouth Direct...
The 319s should be saved to be diesels (assuming they’re eventually make it work!). Replace 442s with converted 350s.Are there enough of them? Once we discount the ones that, for better or worse, are destined to be 769s, plus the remaining Northern and LNWR fleet, and the Orion ones, there are not that many going begging.
The 360/2s with a 2+2 seating conversion, running as 12 car, would be fine IMHO, but they weren’t known to be available at the time First/MTR were making their bid.So can they now convert 350s for the line and say ‘do you want working trains or comfy ones that don’t work?
Were these for new services anyway? Sure I have always been on 444s down the Portsmouth Direct, not a 450?
75 mph, no first class, not max length at only 200m so far less capacity. IMHO no chance.Maybe they’ll retain the Class 458’s give them a 2+2 refit and stick them on the Pompey’s, unsure if there 75mph gearing would scuff that
The 458s are already 2+2.Maybe they’ll retain the Class 458’s give them a 2+2 refit and stick them on the Pompey’s, unsure if there 75mph gearing would scuff that
458501-530 do have first class, it's just declassified.75 mph, no first class, not max length at only 200m so far less capacity. IMHO no chance.
The 458s are already 2+2.
458501-530 do have first class, it's just declassified.
Currently the Direct is only 2tph south of Haslemere. Because that's 1 x semifast and 1 x stopper, at most stations the gaps are somewhat uneven. One curious side effect is that Milford and Witley get an enhanced 2tph service, as both the Portsmouth stoppers and the Haslemere terminators call there.So in the ‘new normal’ are they ever going to be needed?
Cant say 4tph is needed off peak anyway - I have never been on an off peak one that wasn’t half empty, certainly nowhere near crowded.
With the 458s that's down to SWR not looking after them.I cant see anyone being that interested in the Juniper fleet once SWR is finished with them to be honest, they do seem rather run down and do feel tired - though it seems to be a Juniper thing as I cant say I was that impressed with their Scottish cousins last month.