Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[Monty]

Although a lot of the test runs have only been timed for 75. However, having said that, today's 5Q11 was timed for 75, and it left Clapham 10 late and got to Petersfield 6 early, so make of that what you will!

Maximum permitted speed is currently 90 mph, though once they enter service 100 will be the max speed, though for the routes they will normally operate on they 75 will be the norm.

 

[spark001uk]

5Q01 and 5Q02 in the books for early hours of tomorrow, Clapham yard to Southampton and back. Guessing it's 707?

 

[WWTownEnth]

5Q01 and 5Q02 in the books for early hours of tomorrow, Clapham yard to Southampton and back. Guessing it's 707?

For the uninitiated, does this mean there is a delivery tonight?

 

[spark001uk]

For the uninitiated, does this mean there is a delivery tonight?

Not these paths no, it looks like a test run to Southampton and back, but it didn't run last night.

Delivery paths are usually from Dollands Moor sidings to Clapham yard.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Does anyone know what date the first of these units will enter service?

SWTrains has said April so presumably it's just a matter of weeks now....

 

[spark001uk]

Does anyone know what date the first of these units will enter service?

SWTrains has said April so presumably it's just a matter of weeks now....

Well, I tweeted them myself earlier, and have received this reply:

Hi spark, they'll be in service in a few weeks on the Reading/Windsor lines. BV.

So yes indeed it's looking like you presume right!
.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Well, I tweeted them myself earlier, and have received this reply:



So yes indeed it's looking like you presume right!
.

Do they just refer to the Reading|Windsor lines in a generic sense, or do they actually mean they will actually be going to Reading? I assumed they would be Windsor, Weybridge via Houslow and Hounslow loop.

I also thought the generic name was just the Windsor lines anyway.

 

[adc82140]

Can someone point me in the direction of plans for the released 450s from the Reading route? ie what services will be strengthened, what will happen to the remaining diesel over 3rd rail diagrams etc. I'm sure it's been discussed before, but I can't find the thread.

Thanks.

 

[GW43125]

Can someone point me in the direction of plans for the released 450s from the Reading route? ie what services will be strengthened, what will happen to the remaining diesel over 3rd rail diagrams etc. I'm sure it's been discussed before, but I can't find the thread.

Thanks.

Diesel over third rail will continue because that's the only way to do London-Salisbury/Yeovil/Exeter without involving a 73 and some mk.2s!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Diesel over third rail will continue because that's the only way to do London-Salisbury/Yeovil/Exeter without involving a 73 and some mk.2s!

It wouldn't surprise me if the next franchise holder will look into the feasibility of introducing bi-modes onto that route

 

[GW43125]

It wouldn't surprise me if the next franchise holder will look into the feasibility of introducing bi-modes onto that route

I honestly think that would cause too much of an arseache with all the redundant gear, all the DC gubbins which proportionally don't see that much use.

 

[jopsuk]

Could say the same about the Greater Anglia bi-modes, most of their route miles will be on diesel power.

 

[Class455]

I read in the RAIL magazine that the 707's are cascading 456's as well as 450's to strengthen trains to 10 car. Will this include the Shepperton/Strawberry Hill Branch? Most 456's appear on the Guildford and Hampton Court lines and one set appears at 18:00 on the Kingston line.

 

[Suraggu]

I read in the RAIL magazine that the 707's are cascading 456's as well as 450's to strengthen trains to 10 car. Will this include the Shepperton/Strawberry Hill Branch? Most 456's appear on the Guildford and Hampton Court lines and one set appears at 18:00 on the Kingston line.

A 10 car railway will be limited to peak services only until platforms 1-4 are rebuilt so Decmber 17 Timetable change expect 2x455 & 1x456 on most suburban services.

The 707's are planned to be diagramed on Windsor/Hounslow Loop & Weybridge services to eventually allow a 10 car service on the Reading line and cascade Class 450 stock to strengthen other services currently 4/8 car.

 

[Sean Emmett]

707 004 and another arrived RDG P4 10.25 this morning on test.

 

[spark001uk]

707 004 and another arrived RDG P4 10.25 this morning on test.

At a guess that'll be 004 and 006. I just saw 003 and 005 at Clapham Yard. Not sure where 007 and 008 are. Also noticed 001 has gone from shed now. Guessing gone for AC tests?

 

[Monty]

At a guess that'll be 004 and 006. I just saw 003 and 005 at Clapham Yard. Not sure where 007 and 008 are. Also noticed 001 has gone from shed now. Guessing gone for AC tests?

001, 002, 007 & 008 are at Wimbledon Park Depot.

 

[swt_passenger]

I read in the RAIL magazine that the 707's are cascading 456's as well as 450's to strengthen trains to 10 car. Will this include the Shepperton/Strawberry Hill Branch? Most 456's appear on the Guildford and Hampton Court lines and one set appears at 18:00 on the Kingston line.

The main part of the explanation is that 5 x 450s will take over the Ascot - Guildford core services. That releases 10 x 456s that will be able to strengthen a similar number of 455 operated services once Waterloo P1-P4 are lengthened.

 

[swt_passenger]

Can someone point me in the direction of plans for the released 450s from the Reading route? ie what services will be strengthened, what will happen to the remaining diesel over 3rd rail diagrams etc. I'm sure it's been discussed before, but I can't find the thread.

Thanks.

Apart from the west of England route, there are only a small number of DMUs now that run on purely third rail routes, it has been gradually reducing.

I've now added an updated list from the Dec 16 CWNs of the only DMUs I can find working entirely over third rail, however I haven't listed the all day Lymington shuttle to save space:

2T14 0500 Portsmouth Hbr to Basingstoke 3.159

2T69 2221 Basingstoke to Portsmouth Hbr 3.159

2T75 0030 Eastleigh to Portsmouth Hbr 2.158
(the above train is part of the Lymington shuttle DMU cycle - it forms the next morning’s 5E18 Portsmouth - Totton ECS for start of Romsey service.)

2B91 1638 Winchester to Totton 3.159
(formed off 5B91 from Salisbury via Basingstoke - returns as 5B98 ECS via Totton Yard to Barton Mill )

The Lymington shuttle ought to become 450 operated, and the odd few Hampshire locals could become 450 operated, except the one that runs Winchester - Totton in the evening peak, because it uses a non-electrified siding at Totton to reverse. (The latter service could always be altered to run somewhere else of course, we just don't really know.)

With 5 x 450s expected to take over the Ascot Guildford service, and one for Lymington, and part of a single unit diagram for 2T14 and 2T69 replacement, I reckon you'll have about 10 or 11 to strengthen some existing mainline shoulder peak 8 x 450s up to 12 car.

I think this was previously explained by one of the SWT insiders, probably in a different thread?

 

[WWTownEnth]

So does that mean that all the Windsor and Reading line services, including the Hounslow loop and Weybridge, will be either 5 or 10 car - 458/5s or 707s? And all 450s and 455s will be cascaded to main line or main line suburban services?

 

[Matt Taylor]

Expect some residual diesel working on Solent DC routes in 2018 as there'll be some work required to retain our traction knowledge at Fratton. Either that or we'll do more Eastleigh-Romsey work!

 

[spark001uk]

There are plug sockets on 458/5s in First Class, they're underneath and between the two seats.

Slightly ot but just following up on this, I notice the ex-460 driving motors (of 531-536) don't have the sockets, obviously as they never were 1st class in the 460s. Does this also mean the converted TFO and TCO coaches from the 460s have all had the power sockets removed? Or do they remain? Never really searched standard class for sockets if I'm honest.

I believe the plans are to put the doors/curtains back...

I had a look at this too - from what I could see, there's just two glass panels with grab rails at their ends, doesn't seem to be anywhere for a door to go?

As for the curtains, I can't see any evidence of a curtain rail, although from a photo I found of the /0, I see that the overhead panels have been changed to plain ones from the ones that had reading lamps in etc., so perhaps those ones have an integral curtain rail I don't know.

 

[TEW]

So does that mean that all the Windsor and Reading line services, including the Hounslow loop and Weybridge, will be either 5 or 10 car - 458/5s or 707s? And all 450s and 455s will be cascaded to main line or main line suburban services?

There will still be some 450 and probably some 455 workings remaining.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Expect some residual diesel working on Solent DC routes in 2018 as there'll be some work required to retain our traction knowledge at Fratton. Either that or we'll do more Eastleigh-Romsey work!

Do Fratton drivers sign any of the Waterloo-Exter St Davids route?

 

[pompeyfan]

Do Fratton drivers sign any of the Waterloo-Exter St Davids route?

Only drivers who are in the MPV link at Fratton do, they sign to either Westbury or Warminster to Salisbury, as well as Salisbury to Southampton & Basingstoke. Quite often they're used to cross cover if they're available. As a general rule of thumb you have;

link 3 which is Portsmouth/Southampton to Waterloo, Netley line and Botley line - Desiro only

Link 2 which is Poole to waterloo as well as above. Also includes Via Cobham and Clapham Yard.

Link 1 loses some route knowledge but gains diesel work.

 

[swt_passenger]

Expect some residual diesel working on Solent DC routes in 2018 as there'll be some work required to retain our traction knowledge at Fratton. Either that or we'll do more Eastleigh-Romsey work!

As I may have mentioned before, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation isn't it? Ultimately, is the purpose of the diesel service to maintain knowledge or not? A couple of years ago it was said that the 159 that did that return Southampton to Portsmouth Harbour service in the morning was for traction knowledge, but they still chopped it as soon as a 450 became available.

As I listed earlier, the number of DMUs reaching Portsmouth has reduced considerably in only about 3 or 4 years, so what would happen if they took them all away?

 

[Goldfish62]

There will still be some 450 and probably some 455 workings remaining.

How many units are required for the Windsor / Hounslow / Weybridge services? I roughly make it 38-40. That would mean at least 10 units of 450/458/455 still being required.

 

[GW43125]

How many units are required for the Windsor / Hounslow / Weybridge services? I roughly make it 38-40. That would mean at least 10 units of 450/458/455 still being required.

As it stands, Reading requires 14 (7 pairs)
Windsor requires 10 (5 pairs)
Weybridge and rounders are quite a few (can't be bothered to count)

However, from December 2018, the new franchise wants 4tph to each of Reading and Windsor, I estimate you're looking at about 12 pairs for Reading and 9-10 for the Windsors. However, what actually happens remains to be seen.

 

[43096]

As it stands, Reading requires 14 (7 pairs)

Windsor requires 10 (5 pairs)

Weybridge and rounders are quite a few (can't be bothered to count)



However, from December 2018, the new franchise wants 4tph to each of Reading and Windsor, I estimate you're looking at about 12 pairs for Reading and 9-10 for the Windsors. However, what actually happens remains to be seen.

The current Reading off-peak services need 14 sets for 2tph. The peak service needs 24 sets (4tph) - which ties in nicely with your all-day 4tph estimate.

 

[GW43125]

The current Reading off-peak services need 14 sets for 2tph. The peak service needs 24 sets (4tph) - which ties in nicely with your all-day 4tph estimate.

Which when you consider there are 36 458s, if you allow for one pair being in maintenance, you've got 5 pairs which could be used on Weybridge/rounder services alongside the leftover 707s that aren't needed for Windsor.