Conwy Valley Line

[Bletchleyite]

I love the Conwy valley line and used it sometimes to visit my dad in Tanygrisiau. However, face facts that a decent spell of "Bwrw glaw" and the line gets flooded or washed away

The line has not been washed away since the strengthening work happened a number of years ago now. It still floods but it only results in a day or two of closure.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The line has not been washed away since the strengthening work happened a number of years ago now. It still floods but it only results in a day or two of closure.

That is definitely a big improvement then. Thanks for the update

 

[6Gman]

Why are rail anthusiasts advocating closure. Go away!

Because some enthusiasts are realists?
Because this is not solely an enthusiasts forum?
Because when funding is limited it makes sense to spend it where it achieves the most benefit?

 

[Krokodil]

I've often wondered if an additional shuttle between Llandudno and Betws would be beneficial

If you're doing that it would cost little extra to send it through to Blaenau, you can't get any extra trips out of a shorter run.

Do I recall correctly that the loop at Llanrwst isn't presently passenger certified for passing trains, though?

News to me, and while it's been years since there were scheduled passenger trains passing there (used to happen once a day when the 101s were still about) passenger trains still do pass charters and test trains there.

The existing infrastructure can manage a sort-of clockface timetable with a train running every hour and a half.

It still floods but it only results in a day or two of closure.

And often the bus can't get through either because the roads flood too.

 

[12LDA28C]

News to me, and while it's been years since there were scheduled passenger trains passing there (used to happen once a day when the 101s were still about) passenger trains still do pass charters and test trains there.

Indeed, I was on a charter train that passed the scheduled passenger train at Llanrwst just a few months ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, I was on a charter train that passed the scheduled passenger train at Llanrwst just a few months ago.

Must have been dud info, then. Can't remember where I got it from. Unless I was confusing it with Rufford, but I thought that too had been used for passenger passes recently (though the current hourly scheduled service passes on the WCML).

 

[GCRS]

Do the 197s stuggle with the section between Betws and Pont-y-Pant in wet conditions more than the old 150s and 153s did? When we travelled on the line last autumn the driver of the 197 we were on had to continually apply then drop the power to get up there.

 

[Parham Wood]

The first thing is for the current full service to be provided every day without cancellations or frequent late running. Only once this can be achieved can augmentations be considered.

 

[175001]

Do the 197s stuggle with the section between Betws and Pont-y-Pant in wet conditions more than the old 150s and 153s did? When we travelled on the line last autumn the driver of the 197 we were on had to continually apply then drop the power to get up there.

One slipped to a stand going to Blaenau a few weeks back. 197s are too powerful for their power to weight ratio so will struggle to get away.

The line doesn't get treated by the RHTT at all which, despite the sparse service means it's more susceptible to climatic condtions.

 

[williamn]

Lost a fair bit of time south of Betws last summer, just seemed to be the train struggling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do the 197s stuggle with the section between Betws and Pont-y-Pant in wet conditions more than the old 150s and 153s did? When we travelled on the line last autumn the driver of the 197 we were on had to continually apply then drop the power to get up there.

I've been up a couple of times recently and it seemed effortless, felt more like a Swiss EMU than the 15x which had to rev heavily and filled the cabin with fumes. I guess just lucky.

 

[Krokodil]

Do the 197s stuggle with the section between Betws and Pont-y-Pant in wet conditions more than the old 150s and 153s did? When we travelled on the line last autumn the driver of the 197 we were on had to continually apply then drop the power to get up there.

There have been a few recently that failed to get up and had to return to Betws. It occasionally happened with 150s but not to the same extent. 197s also struggle with Hawarden Bank.

 

[nwales58]

There was at one point a plan to have a few electric buses also running on the Valley under the Trawscymru T19 route so you would have an hourly service of either bus or train in any given hour, so it'd be two buses then a train repeating on a cycle. I don't know what happened to that or indeed where the vehicles ended up.

The promises have changed repeatedly. At one point it was to be Llandudno-Blaenau-Porthmadog-Caernarfon with the electric buses based at Tanygrisiau. The planning application for the depot+charger site was rejected. The plan became T22 Blaenau-Caernarfon. The charger compound has now been built in Porthmadog in the car park at the Network Rail end and looks lonely. Attempts to get operators to bid to take on introducing the vehicles and make it work seem to have failed but Gwynedd are being coy about what next. T19 died commercially.

Connections with train at Blaenau may be a pipe dream but we won't know until the service happens. Taktfahrplan Gwynedd is slowly happening but the T22 is supposed to supplement the T2 north of Porthmadog implying Blaenau departures around xx20. Conwy Valley trains arrive around xx30. Tother way buses would arrive around xx40, trains leave xx35-xx40. There is no way to connect with both Conwy Valley and Cambrian services with the current timetables and running times.

People on the buses forum may know what has happened to the vehicles.

We could go on to connections at the junction, but most will be thoroughly bored by now.

 

[mrd269697]

Because some enthusiasts are realists?
Because this is not solely an enthusiasts forum?
Because when funding is limited it makes sense to spend it where it achieves the most benefit?

They’re not going to close the line. Political suicide. No lines currently open bar ones with parlimentary services are going to close - so it’s pointless advocating it.

I just don’t see how it’s ‘realist’

Apart from being an enthusiast, I am also a railwayman of 45.5 years.
I love the Conwy valley line and used it sometimes to visit my dad in Tanygrisiau. However, face facts that a decent spell of "Bwrw glaw" and the line gets flooded or washed away. Network Rail and the Senedd need to make the railway important all year round.

It would also help if a "Round Robin" service were properly enabled and advertised. I did it a few years ago travelling Penkridge-LLJ-BFS then on the Festiniog to Port, an hours lunch in Spooners, then the WHR to Caernarfon, bus to Bangor, 158 to Chester, voyager to Crewe and 350 back to Penkridge. It was a great trip but the times only matched up for about one week of the season.

The boulders have massively helped - the line doesn’t get flooded nearly as often now. Just should of installed them years ago.

In terms of the round robin, that would be good. Im sure there used to be a rover ticket which covered a through journey on the FR. Don’t think it exists now.

A multi-mode public transport ticket around North Wales should be something looked into.

 

[DelW]

In terms of the round robin, that would be good. Im sure there used to be a rover ticket which covered a through journey on the FR. Don’t think it exists now.

Still seems to be available:

Ffestiniog Round Robin | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

Ffestiniog Round Robin offers a circular journey in either direction around the circuit between Shrewsbury - Chester - Llandudno Junction -Blaenau Ffestiniog - Machynlleth - Shrewsbury on Transport for Wales services, plus a single journey on the Ffestiniog Railway in the direction of travel.

Tickets are also available for journeys starting from Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool (using designated geographical routes).

 

[Oxfordblues]

Worth bearing in mind I think that sixty years ago the line was proposed for closure as being "unremunerative". What saved it was the Crimea Pass being blocked by snow in winter preventing schoolchildren from Dolwyddelan from accessing school in Blaenau Ffestiniog. (There would be those who assert that the A470 is also unremunerative!)

 

[John Luxton]

There was at one point a plan to have a few electric buses also running on the Valley under the Trawscymru T19 route so you would have an hourly service of either bus or train in any given hour, so it'd be two buses then a train repeating on a cycle. I don't know what happened to that or indeed where the vehicles ended up.

Didn't the electric buses go to the Aberystwyth - Carmarthen service?

I travelled on them a couple of times this summer when on an Explore Wales Rover once south bound once northbound.

It would also help if a "Round Robin" service were properly enabled and advertised. I did it a few years ago travelling Penkridge-LLJ-BFS then on the Festiniog to Port, an hours lunch in Spooners, then the WHR to Caernarfon, bus to Bangor, 158 to Chester, voyager to Crewe and 350 back to Penkridge. It was a great trip but the times only matched up for about one week of the season.

I think part of the problem here post Covid is not with the Conwy Valley line but the FWHRs new modus operandi prefering to sell round trips out of Porthmadog either to Blaenau or Caernarfon.

Things have been a bit better in 2023 as on some days there is a round trip departure from Blaenau which connects with the mid morning train at Blaenau but it is a very tight connection around 5 minutes. Thus I found it possible to do two trips this year to Porthmadog and back from Liverpool on the train. I had not tried to do the WHR this way but the FR is okay.

The FWHR really do need to get their act together and work to promote round robin trips again. I have always tended to drive to the FWHR but I would be more than willing to use the train more often if there were better connections at Blaenau and the Conwy Valley line could be more reliable. The trips I did this year were on rovers so I had not specifically booked anything and being a FWHR member there was no financial implications if things had gone pear shaped.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think part of the problem here post Covid is not with the Conwy Valley line but the FWHRs new modus operandi prefering to sell round trips out of Porthmadog either to Blaenau or Carmarthen.

That's a fair old way! Do you mean Caernarfon?

 

[John Luxton]

That's a fair old way! Do you mean Caernarfon?

Yes Caernarfon!! (now corrected)

For some reason after writing about the buses on the Carmarthen - Aber service I must have had Carmarthen on the brain.

I did read a comment not so long ago that sometimes people turn up in Carmarthen looking for Caernarfon castle!

 

[Krokodil]

Things have been a bit better in 2023 as on some days there is a round trip departure from Blaenau which connects with the mid morning train at Blaenau but it is a very tight connection around 5 minutes. Thus I found it possible to do two trips this year to Porthmadog and back from Liverpool on the train. I had not tried to do the WHR this way but the FR is okay.

The FWHR really do need to get their act together and work to promote round robin trips again. I have always tended to drive to the FWHR but I would be more than willing to use the train more often if there were better connections at Blaenau and the Conwy Valley line could be more reliable. The trips I did this year were on rovers so I had not specifically booked anything and being a FWHR member there was no financial implications if things had gone pear shaped.

The lack of an advertised timetable really doesn't help. You and I would know how to plan a trip but Joe Public won't bother. FR timetables used to be uploaded to the National Rail systems.

I did see a good few RR tickets this year, and even sold some for the first time. Selling day returns routed "Blaenau Ffest FR" is a thing of the past though, at least for as long as the connections remain so poor.

 

[nwales58]

As the Ffestiniog's web site only shows 'day out' trips (for understandable reasons, commercially) with their start and end times I'm surprised normal people manage to use the round robin fare. Does some publicity somewhere show a circuit timetable and valid dates?

In 2022 the web site had a fare list that mentioned you could board at intermediate stations and buy point-to-point fares from the guard but I cannot see it this year.

I appreciate why the web site is presented like that but if a visitor wants to combine narrow gauge with walking or bus they get the impression it is not possible.

 

[Krokodil]

As the Ffestiniog's web site only shows 'day out' trips (for understandable reasons, commercially) with their start and end times I'm surprised normal people manage to use the round robin fare

'Normals' tend to give up. It's only those in the know who use it these days.

Does some publicity somewhere show a circuit timetable and valid dates?

Publicity? What publicity? It's as good as unadvertised.

 

[splashoutradio]

Not been able to find any info regarding any damage, but TfW's journey check is suggesting servere weather is the cause for the Conwy Valley Line being closed for the next few days.

Due to severe weather between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog all lines are closed.
Impact
Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 23:15 01/01.
Customer Advice
Replacement road transport will be provided.

Source: https://www.journeycheck.com/tfwrail/

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably just flooded and needing checked once receded.

 

[Krokodil]

More likely that it's been sacrificed to spare rolling stock for elsewhere (again).

 

[splashoutradio]

More likely that it's been sacrificed to spare rolling stock for elsewhere (again).

That had crossed my mind, as when you select any Conwy Valley Line record from 'cancelled trains' list, it gives 'This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time' as the reason...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh dear...looks like our run of good luck has ended and a short section has washed out.

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailWAL/status/1777716351244619793

The railway is closed between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog due to river flooding washing out the stones that support the track The line will be shut until further notice while we carry out emergency repairs We're sorry for the disruption

Notably it's not a section with the boulders which I guess shows they work...

 

[gazthomas]

It is near Dolgarrog railway station

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is near Dolgarrog railway station

Interesting, I thought that whole section had been bouldered but that bit clearly hasn't! Needs a few more I guess. Hope they do do that rather than just patching it.

 

[gazthomas]

Interesting, I thought that whole section had been bouldered but that bit clearly hasn't! Needs a few more I guess. Hope they do do that rather than just patching it.

As the line goes south at this point it goes away from the river for a while