Crewe to Hope (Derbyshire) Anytime Return

[petemarconi]

Good Afternoon All - First Post

Travelled out from Crewe to Hope last Friday (22/1) and was travelling back today via Bredbury where I intended to break my journey for a few days to spend some time with relatives. After I boarded the 1140 at Hope I told the guard this and presented the return part of my ticket - he said I would be better buying a Hope to Bredbury single, as once I had used my anytime return as far as Bredbury it would be invalid for further travel to Crewe. He was insistent on this even when I said I believed an anytime return was valid for a break of journey and tried again to sell me an anytime single to Bredbury. After around five mins of discussion which was going nowhere, the guard wrote today's date on the ticket (which I was fine with) and said the ticket was now invalid for further travel after Bredbury - where I left the train as planned. Who was right ? Would I have been better to buy the Hope to Bredbury single ? - and is the ticket I have with today's date on now effectively cancelled ?

 

[Hadders]

You're right, the guard is wrong. It's not my part of the country but I assume Bredbury is on a permitted route between Crewe and Hope.

 

[petemarconi]

Thanks for the reply - yes Bredbury is on the Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly line, I was on the Northern Rail all stations stopper. The route to Crewe means going into Manchester and then out to Crewe - there is a possible alternative - at least for the out part of the trip - of changing at Stockport and again at Chinley, but this only available for a limited number of trains and not for the return trip I needed to make. So I presume the ticket marked with today's date is still valid - and I won't have any trouble rejoining a train at Bredbury - or any station on the way back to Crewe ?

 

[Hadders]

A date written on a ticket doesn't invalidate it. It just indicates it was used for at least part of the journey on that day.

You might, of course, meet a member of staff who is less knowledgable or who chooses to make up their own rules. If so I suggest you co-operate and submit a complaint to the operator.

 

[SickyNicky]

You might wish to refer them to the Northern Rail website, which explicitly says that Anytime tickets may include "break of journey (including more than one / different days)".

For Anytime Return tickets, the outward journey must be made within 5 days, and up until 0429 after the last day of validity, break of journey (including more than one / different days) is permitted anytime / day within the 5 day validity as long as you do not go off route or have started to use the return portion of the ticket; the return portion must be used within one calendar month and up until 0429 after the last day of validity.

 

[sheff1]

As others have said, the guard was wrong. If you are doing similar again, do not to tell the guard you are breaking your journey - there is no need to tell them and you will avoid unnecessary discussion with someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

 

[petemarconi]

Many thanks for the replies, I did think I was in the right after reading a few threads along similar lines, but assumed that the guard knew better as he must have been trained up for the job. I'm now happy to use the return back to Crewe, hopefully without any problems.

 

[crehld]

You might wish to refer them to the Northern Rail website, which explicitly says that Anytime tickets may include "break of journey (including more than one / different days)".

Most interesting. Have you read what it says further down that page, which seems to directly contradict what it says at the top?

Break of journey

You may start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station along the route of travel.

Break of journey for an overnight stay is allowed. Where a journey continues into the next day, travel must resume before 1200 and no further break of journey is allowed except to change trains.

It's of course utter rubbish, but it does highlight Northern HQ's ability to just make things up on the cuff.

I seem to remember a case on the forum about a year back where another forum member was incorrectly told off for an overnight break of journey on the return portion of an anytime return. Northern kept waving this rule around and it was only after an unnecessarily long and protracted merry-go-round of correspondence and some pressure applied by Barry Doe they agreed to change the wording to reflect reality. It seems they haven't bothered!

Many thanks for the replies, I did think I was in the right after reading a few threads along similar lines, but assumed that the guard knew better as he must have been trained up for the job. I'm now happy to use the return back to Crewe, hopefully without any problems.

Unfortunately Northern guards getting break of journey conditions on anytime returns wrong is not at all uncommon. It's happened to me several times and I've witnessed many others encounter the same issue you have. Personally I'm a bit fed up of constantly being labelled a criminal or fare evader every time I use a valid ticket and decide to spend a night round a mates in Huddersfield or Manchester on my way back from Yorkshire. Break of journeys on Anytime tickets is one of the most basic principles of ticket validity, so it really shouldn't be difficult to get right.

I know several Northern guards who are very attentive and do a great job, so I can only conclude the root cause of this is shoddy training provided by their management, which isn't at all fair on them or their passengers.

 

[petemarconi]

An update to this thread:

I contacted Northern Rail Customer Services to complain about the lack of knowledge of rail ticketing exhibited by the guard on the train I travelled on - I was assured by Northern that the guard was in error and ticket was indeed valid for onward travel to Crewe and that the staff involved would be informed of their error.

I planned to restart my journey at Stockport and proceed to Crewe to meet a friend who was holding 1st advances to Euston for us both.

The barrier at Stockport brought up an error code for my ticket (it had not been through any barriers before this (none at Hope or Bredbury) and the Virgin Barrier Staff refused me entry to the station saying that my ticket was invalid for further travel as it had a date written on it. I queried this and told him I had an email from Northern Rail confirming it was valid, but he was unmoved and still refused me entry. Time was now getting short to make my train and ongoing connection to Euston, so I asked for a manager to be brought, she arrived pretty quickly, but just confirmed what the barrier staff had said that my ticket was invalid and said I would have to buy a new ticket if I wanted to travel. A (polite) short argument ensued, but the manager still refused to budge. At this point a member of the Virgin counter staff walked past on his way out of the station and the manager asked him about the ticket - he confirmed it was perfectly valid for travel, so I was allowed onto the station and fortunately made the train with a couple of minutes to spare.

Along with the obvious lack of knowledge and training provided to Northern and now Virgin staff - including Managers, I have a question: If I had missed my train at Stockport due to having to purchase a new ticket - and therefore missed my connection from Crewe to Euston, would Virgin have been liable - and would I have been able to claim the cost of a 1st single to Euston as well as the Stockport to Crewe ticket ?

 

[gray1404]

Please could you also make a complaint to Virgin about being refused access to travel, even though you had a perfectly valid ticket. Only if people complain will we be able to put an end to this mess.