Cross Country cutting out Winchester and Basingstoke stops

[HamworthyGoods]

It seems odd that they plan to make Winchester set down/pick up and cut out Basingstoke given the connections at Basingstoke. Surely if they insist on doing this it'd have been better to do it the other way round and make Basingstoke pick up/set down and cut out Winchester

There’s not a huge amount of connections that can only be reached at Basingstoke.

Andover is one of the few.

Salisbury can be reached by changing at Southampton, Exeter by changing at Reading and Farnborough by also changing at Reading.

 

[FenMan]

There’s not a huge amount of connections that can only be reached at Basingstoke.

Andover is one of the few.

Salisbury can be reached by changing at Southampton, Exeter by changing at Reading and Farnborough by also changing at Reading.

Woking*, Fleet?

*Yes, I'm aware of the via Guildford routeing, but it's a faff compared with an easy and well-timed change at Basingstoke.

 

[swt_passenger]

Salisbury can be reached by changing at Southampton...

But is it a valid route? Will journey planners produce it?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Woking*, Fleet?

*Yes, I'm aware of the via Guildford routeing, but it's a faff compared with an easy and well-timed change at Basingstoke.

Neither of which are huge flows.

 

[Wychwood93]

Neither of which are huge flows.

I have a feeling that some people may have overlooked the OPs #1 and yours, #2. June to September on Saturdays only - this is important!. On normal weekdays there is a lot of short distance travel. Saturdays are regarded as a general to/from weekly holiday day. With all due respect, I do not view either Basingstoke or Winchester as holiday destinations. Apart from dropping stops or doing a (stupid) pick-up/set-down, the timetable remains the same - ditto the COVID (remember that!) fasts from Basingstoke to Parkway - you still catch the 1Txx Waterloo/Pompey before Eastleigh. The bottom line is that I can see where XC are coming from. All I could say to them is, if there a cruise ship coming to Southampton, then put on a double-set! Work with your 'transport partners'!

 

[Deepgreen]

I had a look on Cross Country Trains website to see if I could find anything there.
This is what I found:

View attachment 156584

Another gem of modern railway information - not giving either place capitals in the blurb! Ghastly.

 

[Bikeman78]

I had a look on Cross Country Trains website to see if I could find anything there.
This is what I found:

View attachment 156584

If they are offering cheap tickets on trains that are genuinely overcrowded then they really have lost the plot.

We are where we are unfortunately. Got to make the best of a bad job.

I don't travel on them. Problem solved!

 

[dk1]

I don't travel on them. Problem solved!

That’s one way of dealing with it

 

[Mat17]

Winchester is far more likely to be a day trip destination from the midlands than Southampton so it's important to maintain stops to set down and pick up. Missing out Basingstoke makes journeys to (eg): Salisbury line stations complicated from the midlands, unless you go via Bristol.

I did the trip from Sheffield to Winchester many years ago, I was hoping to go again one day, when the direct services to Southampton ever reappeared. Looks like even if the do come back they'll stop short and then not call there anyway. With the state of the railways of late I hate having to change trains multiple times, especially over long distances. Shame.

 

[swt_passenger]

I did the trip from Sheffield to Winchester many years ago, I was hoping to go again one day, when the direct services to Southampton ever reappeared. Looks like even if the do come back they'll stop short and then not call there anyway. With the state of the railways of late I hate having to change trains multiple times, especially over long distances. Shame.

Extensions of the NE to South XC route beyond Reading are not coming back. They’re not in XC‘s recent track access application that covers the build up of services in 2025 onwards.

 

[fandroid]

The leaving out of Basingstoke wouldn't be a serious issue if XC weren't the only providers of non-stop Basingstoke-Reading services on Saturdays. We've only just got the hourly XC service restored and now it's being cut back because it's too busy! At least 50% of passengers on the GWR shuttles are travelling end to end. It's questionable whether, outside the peaks, the intermediate stations need 2 trains per hour. Slotting in a GWR or SWR hourly non-stop service would make the pill a bit easier to swallow. As it is, I suspect a large number of passengers boarding at Reading on a Saturday will find they've shot straight by Basingstoke and will have to talk their way back from Winchester. It's doubtful the change will reduce crowding before September, as it'll take that long for the public to twig the implications.

 

[gabrielhj07]

At least 50% of passengers on the GWR shuttles are travelling end to end.

At least, if not more.

Slotting in a GWR or SWR hourly non-stop service would make the pill a bit easier to swallow.

Trouble is I'm not sure either TOC has the diesels to spare for such a service.

 

[cle]

The leaving out of Basingstoke wouldn't be a serious issue if XC weren't the only providers of non-stop Basingstoke-Reading services on Saturdays. We've only just got the hourly XC service restored and now it's being cut back because it's too busy! At least 50% of passengers on the GWR shuttles are travelling end to end. It's questionable whether, outside the peaks, the intermediate stations need 2 trains per hour. Slotting in a GWR or SWR hourly non-stop service would make the pill a bit easier to swallow. As it is, I suspect a large number of passengers boarding at Reading on a Saturday will find they've shot straight by Basingstoke and will have to talk their way back from Winchester. It's doubtful the change will reduce crowding before September, as it'll take that long for the public to twig the implications.

I used to rather like the SWT Reading starters to Salisbury and the like - which were on weekends. Interesting to use Reading as a regional SWT hub - to unlock/exchange longer, electric Waterloo paths. Might be something to

Arguably Reading could add 1tph regional services - which partially replace the much-missed Waterloo-Bristol ones - to add service along this route. These would connect into fast services at Basingstoke, plus everything Reading offers.

Warminster especially, is down to a very thin service. Trowbridge and Bradford have this weird Gloucester/Westbury service, but I would think this is more useful, getting to Salisbury and of course Basingstoke. They can arguably get to Reading quicker via Westbury or Bath, but not sure on connections. And people like direct.

It could also speed up Waterloo-Exeter. But would have to correspond with more Weymouth line calls at Basingstoke.

 

[swt_passenger]

I used to rather like the SWT Reading starters to Salisbury and the like - which were on weekends. Interesting to use Reading as a regional SWT hub - to unlock/exchange longer, electric Waterloo paths. Might be something to

SWR run hourly Reading to Salisbury (or further) on Sundays until 1712. I think that‘s all SWT did as well, I don’t remember it happening on Saturdays, although it may have happened with engineering work east of Basingstoke?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Warminster especially, is down to a very thin service.

I don’t quite follow this? Is has the most number of train services it ever has. 2tph GWR all day to Bristol and most of these now run to at least Salisbury that’s on top of the handful of SWR services.

Warminster has never previously had a regular 1/2 hourly frequency to Bristol.

Trowbridge and Bradford have this weird Gloucester/Westbury

The Gloucester to Westbury service is more about providing the 2tph Filton to Bath and a direct service from Yate and Bristol Parkway to Bath.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Slotting in a GWR or SWR hourly non-stop service would make the pill a bit easier to swallow.

I suspect that residents of Bramley and users of the level-crossing would be aghast at the prospect of two more trains per hour!

 

[Kite159]

SWR run hourly Reading to Salisbury (or further) on Sundays until 1712. I think that‘s all SWT did as well, I don’t remember it happening on Saturdays, although it may have happened with engineering work east of Basingstoke?

Only time I've seen SWR running to Reading on Saturdays has been on days where engineering works has been taken place (either between Basingstoke & Woking or even in Surbiton where the stoppers diverted to Reading).

Quite helpful for passengers to avoid the replacement buses and the long "tour de Staines".

 

[cle]

SWR run hourly Reading to Salisbury (or further) on Sundays until 1712. I think that‘s all SWT did as well, I don’t remember it happening on Saturdays

I think it was during works. But I think it's an interesting thing to explore - if London paths are finite and must be 12 car, electric etc etc etc - which is best practice, then Reading is a solid regional terminus for some other service - much as it did with Newbury slows, Basingstoke etc and those bays.

An hourly Salisbury or Bristol could be useful. And help the Basingstoke frequency (if XC don't return) - even add to Green Park in future if needed.

 

[mangyiscute]

Don’t know about crush loaded but the turbos definitely seem busier than the voyagers off peak.

always amuses me when they mainly run 3 coaches, but then the train that is best timed for the football matches at Reading Green Park is often a 2 coach - I'm like surely you could ensure that on football days, those diagrams are 3 coach trains

 

[nw1]

There’s not a huge amount of connections that can only be reached at Basingstoke.

Andover is one of the few.

Salisbury can be reached by changing at Southampton, Exeter by changing at Reading and Farnborough by also changing at Reading.

The point though is: why cut out the Basingstoke stop at all?

It seems absolutely absurd and makes zero sense. XC services tend (IMX) to be overcrowded north of Reading and not south thereof, cutting out sizeable towns like Basingstoke and restricting Winchester to one direction only just seems plain mystifying.

Brockenhurst was bad enough, but this is even worse. XC managed perfectly fine for years and years and years, since the 70s, calling at Basingstoke. And most of that time they called at Brockenhurst too. What's suddenly changed to make Basingstoke a problem?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The point though is: why cut out the Basingstoke stop at all?

It seems absolutely absurd and makes zero sense. XC services tend (IMX) to be overcrowded north of Reading and not south thereof, cutting out sizeable towns like Basingstoke and restricting Winchester to one direction only just seems plain mystifying.

Brockenhurst was bad enough, but this is even worse. XC managed perfectly fine for years and years and years, since the 70s, calling at Basingstoke. And most of that time they called at Brockenhurst too. What's suddenly changed to make Basingstoke a problem?

It’s to stop local Basingstoke to Reading and Basingstoke to Southampton and Bournemouth passengers overloading the XC services.

 

[peterson]

This doc proposes regular Reading to Salisbury services all week. Dependent on numerous infrastructure changes...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/regional-long-term-planning/Wales%2520and%2520Western/Reading%2520Area%2520Rail%2520network%2520Strategic%2520Study%2520February%25202023.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjLhKeixYWGAxXt_rsIHRAlBvYQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3dVtnr9kz8bQHI7IcS-T6b

 

[nw1]

It’s to stop local Basingstoke to Reading and Basingstoke to Southampton and Bournemouth passengers overloading the XC services.

But do they?

Not in my experience: I used XC frequently (multiple times per year) from around 1997 to around 2016, so mostly in the Voyager era.
During this time, the problems were always north of Reading. Never once experienced overcrowding south thereof.

Same would go for Brockenhurst, the services are even more lightly loaded west of Southampton, making the removal of stop (admittedly not as important as Basingstoke, but does provide the Lymington and thus IoW connection of course) equally hard to understand.

Basingstoke is a large enough town to warrant inter-city services to the Midlands and north stopping there. This proposal is a withdrawal of a service which has provided several through services per day since the late 70s.

The "classic" stopping pattern, with Basingstoke and Brockenhurst, worked in the 2010s, despite higher passenger numbers and a more intensively-used SWML; why can it not work now?

 

[cle]

This doc proposes regular Reading to Salisbury services all week. Dependent on numerous infrastructure changes...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/regional-long-term-planning/Wales%2520and%2520Western/Reading%2520Area%2520Rail%2520network%2520Strategic%2520Study%2520February%25202023.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjLhKeixYWGAxXt_rsIHRAlBvYQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3dVtnr9kz8bQHI7IcS-T6b

Thanks.

This is the most relevant screen shot.

As well as the Reading-Salisbury, the EWR service is interesting.

Not least because that would take up the Newcastle XC extensions, and those would put Guildford and Portsmouth back on the XC map - it’s not Brighton but many will be happy!

I’m curious if EWR will reach Reading sooner - ie Cambridge is mentioned here but for now it’ll be 2tph Oxford-MKC. And when Bedford joins, will Bedford or MKC be more desirable? Slight side bar, but interesting.

And basically a third XC service through Reading each hour.

 

[Snow1964]

Brockenhurst was bad enough, but this is even worse. XC managed perfectly fine for years and years and years, since the 70s, calling at Basingstoke. And most of that time they called at Brockenhurst too. What's suddenly changed to make Basingstoke a problem?

Not quite right, back in 1970s a lot of summer Saturday services to Bournemouth (usually Poole or Weymouth then) skipped both Reading and Basingstoke. The former avoided loco run round. From memory skipped Banbury too.

Having said that the summer Saturday service was more than double the regular XC service then. Different approach, run extra trains, not discourage travel.

Brockenhurst was never an XC stop in 1970s or 1980s (neither was Southampton Airport/Parkway). Instead the first northbound, and last southbound called additionally at New Milton (to serve the conurbation, and avoid Forest roads (which could be dark and icy, with unlit ponies).

 

[Bikeman78]

It’s to stop local Basingstoke to Reading and Basingstoke to Southampton and Bournemouth passengers overloading the XC services.

It's been suggested upthread that the local trains between Reading and Basingstoke are already more busy that the Voyagers. So the overall situation will be worse if people cannot use XC. Anyway, who cares if a few people have to stand for 25 minutes? That is quite normal between Paddington and Reading, for example.

 

[Kite159]

It's been suggested upthread that the local trains between Reading and Basingstoke are already more busy that the Voyagers. So the overall situation will be worse if people cannot use XC. Anyway, who cares if a few people have to stand for 25 minutes? That is quite normal between Paddington and Reading, for example.

The only times I've had to stand on XC between Basingstoke & Reading (or vice versa) is days when services via Woking have fallen over (or during planned engineering works with passengers avoiding the buses), the odd day where XC is carrying cruise passengers with kitchen sinks or Reading Festival time.

More likely to end up standing on the section towards Oxford/Banbury, maybe XC should make Oxford pick up only to stop carrying local passengers between Reading & Oxford which go to the voyager because it runs in front of the GWR

 

[Jimini]

I use XC from Coventry to Reading quite a bit (at least once a week for the past couple of years or so). My only observation here would be that the absolute shed loads of people getting off southbound services at Reading are replaced by a mere handful of people heading south from Reading. Even with single voyagers, it’s never looked even close to being all seats taken, from what I’ve seen.

 

[gc4946]

I'd allow set down only at Basingstoke for XC services to Bournemouth and pick up only the other way.
One way round could be to sell tickets for journeys between those points valid only on South Western Railway.
If anyone boarded a XC service they would need to pay an excess up to the full single fare unless there's industrial action or a serious incident on SWR.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

I’ve certainly seen a very full, and thus delayed northbound Voyager at Basingstoke on a Saturday morning; well over 50 people getting on.