Cross Country Weekend First query

[WesternLancer]

Hi any advice or knowledge appreciated.

I'm planning an XC HST trip, Midlands to Plymouth day return. Due to risk issues of the HST(s) not running I'd buy tickets on the day (eg Off Peak or Day Returns), and then seek to upgrade to 1st class using Weekend First

I can see Weekend First on BRfares (so assume that in theory at least you can even buy that before you board at the ticket office, tho that does risk the theoretical possibility of all seats being occupied or reserved and I have no idea what XC HST loadings in 1st may be like these days)

But no mention of Weekend First that I found on the XC website (just talks about upgrading using Seatfrog which I have never used)

So questions are

a - Do XC on board staff still sell Weekend First at the flat fares, on the train? (subject to space being available)
b - Any views / experience on HST 1st class loadings on sats or sundays?
c - Does Weekend First include any complimentary refreshments on sats and sundays, or is the offer different from weekday 1st class XC offer?

Thanks in advance.

 

[StarCrossing]

Hi,

Yes, you can still buy from the guard. Drinks and nibbles (e.g. biscuits) should be available, but aren't always. Loadings should be fine - you can almost always upgrade on a Voyager, never mind a HST.

You'll save a packet by splitting your tickets. You should be able to buy the upgrade for the whole (single) journey, even with split tickets.

Having said all that, the great thing about the HSTs, in my view at least, is that they're really good in standard class. 1st class, while still clearly better than standard, isn't that much better. This is in stark contrast to the Voyagers, where 1st and standard are miles apart in terms of comfort.

If, for any reason, you can't upgrade, the quietest part of standard class is usually the bit right by the power car. There's no door at that end of the carriage and most people don't walk that far down the carriage.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi,

Yes, you can still buy from the guard. Drinks and nibbles (e.g. biscuits) should be available, but aren't always. Loadings should be fine - you can almost always upgrade on a Voyager, never mind a HST.

You'll save a packet by splitting your tickets. You should be able to buy the upgrade for the whole (single) journey, even with split tickets.

Having said all that, the great thing about the HSTs, in my view at least, is that they're really good in standard class. 1st class, while still clearly better than standard, isn't that much better. This is in stark contrast to the Voyagers, where 1st and standard are miles apart in terms of comfort.

If, for any reason, you can't upgrade, the quietest part of standard class is usually the bit right by the power car. There's no door at that end of the carriage and most people don't walk that far down the carriage.

Many thanks for all that info and the added tips, really useful. Yes, I think I need several splits which will save a decent sum.

 

[kkong]

So questions are

a - Do XC on board staff still sell Weekend First at the flat fares, on the train? (subject to space being available)
b - Any views / experience on HST 1st class loadings on sats or sundays?
c - Does Weekend First include any complimentary refreshments on sats and sundays, or is the offer different from weekday 1st class XC offer?

a. I bought a £25.00 Weekend First upgrade on a Voyager last Sunday. The ticket I had wasn't valid for upgrading, but the guard didn't question it and issued the upgrade.
b. There were plenty seats in 1st class on this Voyager; it got busier after Birmingham heading south.
c. Biscuits, soft drinks. I think I saw someone get a sandwich too.

 

[WesternLancer]

a. I bought a £25.00 Weekend First upgrade on a Voyager last Sunday. The ticket I had wasn't valid for upgrading, but the guard didn't question it and issued the upgrade.
b. There were plenty seats in 1st class on this Voyager; it got busier after Birmingham heading south.
c. Biscuits, soft drinks. I think I saw someone get a sandwich too.

Thanks - helpful intel, and appreciated

So having now done the trip my answers to my own question if any one chances on the thread are:


a - Do XC on board staff still sell Weekend First at the flat fares, on the train? (subject to space being available)

Yes, very happy to do so, prompt check in 1st after boarding and upgrades sold, my tickets being split 5 times over the journey was not an issue. Only reluctance was to book it through to use on a connecting XC service as the gaurd pointed out that he could not gaurantee there would be a seat. But when he noticed the sum was the same, and I indicated I would not be concerned if there was in fact no space as it was a short additional leg, he was kind enough to book it through anyway. No staff ever mentioned I could have used seat frog.

b - Any views / experience on HST 1st class loadings on sats or sundays?

V lightly loaded. Only 2 or 3 pre booked reservations in the 1st class carriages for a Midlands to Plymouth and back journey. No promotion of weekend 1st in on board announcements so no real likelihood of anyone doing it who did not already know of it

c - Does Weekend First include any complimentary refreshments on sats and sundays, or is the offer different from weekday 1st class XC offer?

Yes, from a dedicated trolley (tho only 1 on board staff member to do both trolleys yesterday so they had the whole train to cover) - tea / instant coffee, in smaller cups than the paid for trolley, offered biscuits, bottled water, crisps (smaller bag than you get in a shop), cake slices. So sandwiches are not part of the offer at least not yesterday.

I probably had 4 cups of tea between Plymouth and Birmingham so the member of staff probably did 4 passes through in 1st to offer the complimentary items which I thought was good service given having to cover the std class section too.

 

[AY1975]

a. I bought a £25.00 Weekend First upgrade on a Voyager last Sunday. The ticket I had wasn't valid for upgrading, but the guard didn't question it and issued the upgrade.

What type of ticket did you have? I'm guessing that you had a XC Advance - I believe that some train operators do allow 1st class upgrades with Standard Class Advances and some don't, at least not officially (and where a ticket isn't valid for upgrading, it presumably also isn't valid with a Seatfrog upgrade if the operator in question participates in Seatfrog), although I've heard that in practice even if you have a ticket that isn't technically valid for use with 1st class upgrades, some guards tend to turn a blind eye.

 

[kkong]

What type of ticket did you have?

It was a SailRail.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

tea / instant coffee, in smaller cups than the paid for trolley

That really is being stingy! For tea in particular the cost saving to Cross Country is negligible (same tea bag, a little less hot water and a marginally cheaper paper cup). Just not worth doing for the negative PR.

 

[yorkie]

a - Do XC on board staff still sell Weekend First at the flat fares, on the train? (subject to space being available)

I've never been refused yet.

b - Any views / experience on HST 1st class loadings on sats or sundays?

I've been in lightly loaded 1st class while standard is absolutely packed. But it depends on the train you want to get, and the exact journey you are making; does it clash with football fixtures for example? If you let us know the days and times we can advise better.

c - Does Weekend First include any complimentary refreshments on sats and sundays, or is the offer different from weekday 1st class XC offer?

It does but it really isn't anything substantial; I'd bring your own supplies for a long trip. It's generally unhealthy stuff too. If you are incredibly lucky you might possibly get offered a sandwich but certainly don't count on that!

 

[Ridercross]

In my experience, the staff never offer the sandwiches in First Class you have to ask for them!

 

[kkong]

In my experience, the staff never offer the sandwiches in First Class you have to ask for them!

I can confirm this. I was not offered. Someone else asked and was given one. Perhaps the staff like to keep them for themselves?

 

[WesternLancer]

That really is being stingy! For tea in particular the cost saving to Cross Country is negligible (same tea bag, a little less hot water and a marginally cheaper paper cup). Just not worth doing for the negative PR.

Yes, maybe it's about saving time re-filling the thermos flasks of hot water? The time to do that would cost more than the product, as you say.

I can confirm this. I was not offered. Someone else asked and was given one. Perhaps the staff like to keep them for themselves?

Yes, no sign of sandwiches! I thus assumed you had to pay for them. I did ask if any food was available and the response was that 'I've only got cheese sandwiches' - with no indication as to cost / free etc. So that's a bit poor really.

The pdf menu download on the XC website linked from their 1st class webpage seems to have little relation to what was on offer, free or paid for.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, no sign of sandwiches! I thus assumed you had to pay for them. I did ask if any food was available and the response was that 'I've only got cheese sandwiches' - with no indication as to cost / free etc. So that's a bit poor really.

The pdf menu download on the XC website linked from their 1st class webpage seems to have little relation to what was on offer, free or paid for.

XC as a company, and most of the staff who provide the service, don't seem to want people to know sandwiches are available.

Also, despite the lack of takeup (because you have to specifically ask for them), availability typically seems to be very low too, however a few months ago not far from the end of the shift, staff member - who had not been offering sandwiches when they walked through 1st class offering drinks - divulged they had loads left and anyone who asked for one from the counter got offered a couple. The remainder were to be thrown away, apparently.

I would see XC 1st class as a nice seat and an opportunity to experience what is likely (but not guaranteed) to be a quiet and spacious environment, on what can otherwise be a very busy train, and bring your own refreshments.

 

[WesternLancer]

XC as a company, and most of the staff who provide the service, don't seem to want people to know sandwiches are available.

Also, despite the lack of takeup (because you have to specifically ask for them), availability typically seems to be very low too, however a few months ago not far from the end of the shift, staff member - who had not been offering sandwiches when they walked through 1st class offering drinks - divulged they had loads left and anyone who asked for one from the counter got offered a couple. The remainder were to be thrown away, apparently.

I would see XC 1st class as a nice seat and an opportunity to experience what is likely (but not guaranteed) to be a quiet and spacious environment, on what can otherwise be a very busy train, and bring your own refreshments.

Yes, I'm not bothered too much about the refreshments, just of they are supposed to offer them for the money they charge, then they should do so.

Pretty weird to not offer the stuff, then throw it away due to not offering it! Might as well just withdraw it from the 'offer'.

I once, pre covid, deliberately booked Advance 1st on one of the few XC services that offered hot meals. Not sure if they even do them at all now. I can honestly say it was one of the worst on train meals (std or 1st) I've ever eaten. Even the guy serving it was apologetic about it...

 

[yorkie]

Yes, I'm not bothered too much about the refreshments, just of they are supposed to offer them for the money they charge, then they should do so.

Pretty weird to not offer the stuff, then throw it away due to not offering it! Might as well just withdraw it from the 'offer'.

I suspect they want to keep it on the offer, on the basis that those seeing the offer may be enticed to book in, or upgrade to, 1st class and that those 'in the know' can ask for it, while for the most part they save money by not actively offering it.

XC know exactly what they are doing; if they actively offered people the freebies, they'd have to stock more stuff (like LNER do) which costs them money. If they altered the offer, then people viewing their website would be less likely to upgrade, costing them money. XC won't care if some sandwiches are thrown away; the wholesale cost of sandwiches is such that it would take a lot of thrown away sandwiches to cover the cost of just one 1st class upgrade.

XC are very clever when it comes to maximising the price people pay while giving the minimum level of service; their ticketing policy is very deliberate to maximise revenue, but that's a whole new topic, it's been debated in numerous threads:

Savvy passengers know about split ticket websites and use a split ticket provider. Non-savvy passengers may pay whatever XC ask them to pay as there is no viable alternative. This maximises revenue on a yield management basis, with people paying a price that more closely resembles what they are prepared to pay.

Some people are put off travelling and either do not make the journey or use another mode. XC are very happy for some people to make this choice, as at some times of day XC trains are fully loaded and XC have no desire nor easy means to increase capacity.

Therefore XC see the current situation as the best possible scenario...

...For example Arriva CrossCountry budget for the fact that some people take the 0915 from Reading and pay nearly £200 for an Anytime Return. Under BR and Virgin CrossCountry the Off Peak Return (formerly Saver Return) was valid for this journey, and costs around £85. The cost of an Off Peak Return from Oxford (departure at 0937) is around £80. The cost of Reading to Oxford on that train is under £20. So it can be done for £100, ie. around half price....

...I think secretly XC know that split ticketing does actually keep some passengers on the trains who would otherwise be lost to rail, however they are not prepared to admit this publicly and they are certainly not going to offer people such fares willingly.

XC know their strageies in these areas are very much working well and are unlikely to change their ways; the DfT are no doubt also very happy with what XC are doing.

The best thing to do is simply understand the system and use it for your benefit; the current system very much benefits those 'in the know', so I actually hope it doesn't change, as you can bet that if any of this changed, it would definitely be against passengers!

 

[fandroid]

I've never had any bother even with fistfuls of paper split tickets on XC. The stopping patterns tend to be consistent too, so there's not normally any worry if wishing to varying the timings of return journeys when using flexible tickets

 

[Sealink]

If the service is Mon-Fri, and consists of 2 Voyager units, XC stipulate that you should sit in Coach A if you want refreshments in First Class.

 

[kkong]

If the service is Mon-Fri, and consists of 2 Voyager units, XC stipulate that you should sit in Coach A if you want refreshments in First Class.

This was also the case on my Sunday journey with a double Voyager.

 

[Jimini]

I've never had any bother even with fistfuls of paper split tickets on XC. The stopping patterns tend to be consistent too, so there's not normally any worry if wishing to varying the timings of return journeys when using flexible tickets

They certainly seem to expect it in my experience as well aye. 90% of train managers will ask how far you're travelling when, for example, you show them a single ticket from Coventry to Banbury at Leamington Spa, guessing (correctly in a number of instances) that the overall journey will likely include another ticket from Banbury to Oxford / Reading etc.

 

[pgfb1306]

As far as I remember, Weekend First wasn't available with advances on XC. However, you could use advances with Seatfrog. Never once saw Seatfrog being offered at the weekend when I have used XC though. When on a double Voyager I'd often be reminded that if I wanted refreshments to sit in coach A - but would much rather have the quietness of hardly anyone in the other first class carriage!

 

[WesternLancer]

As far as I remember, Weekend First wasn't available with advances on XC. However, you could use advances with Seatfrog. Never once saw Seatfrog being offered at the weekend when I have used XC though. When on a double Voyager I'd often be reminded that if I wanted refreshments to sit in coach A - but would much rather have the quietness of hardly anyone in the other first class carriage!

Yes, I think this is the rule with an Advance Ticket, but some gaurds are often happy to do the upgrade - after all it makes commercial sense to me as it's more money in the bank...