December 2021 Timetable change

[MK Tom]

Still only 9tpd on the Marston Vale line in the December-May LNWR timetable, the rest replaced by buses.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Still only 9tpd on the Marston Vale line in the December-May LNWR timetable, the rest replaced by buses.

At least Marston Vale (and Abbey Line when applicable) get rail replacement buses - express and all stations. Here in the land of the forgotten (East Midlands Railway) we just have to suck it up on reduced services. On my local line just 60% service currently plus a couple of peak buses running part route, 80% service from December until who knows when.

 

[Melancholia]

GWR looks to be running a full service, similar to the Dec 19, except of course the Superfast services to/from Bristol TM. Are there any others missing? Luckily the services most important to me (S. Wales - London going back to 2tph, and 1C01 0545 Paddington - Bristol TM) are returning

 

[tornado]

Not seeing a return of 3tph on the North Downs line though. Seems that was an experimental phase for GWR!

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Not seeing a return of 3tph on the North Downs line though. Seems that was an experimental phase for GWR!

That won't ever return, and it never really properly started, it was more of a trial.

 

[D9006]

That’s cool if you enjoy it mate. Id rather be a piss head myself on a Saturday night. We work enough antisocial shifts without having to endure more when there’s no need.

Quit then

 

[Dieseldriver]

Quit then

Or, just don’t put yourself available to work a rest day on a Saturday late turn if you don’t want to?

 

[dk1]

Quit then

We are talking about overtime not booked turns.

Or, just don’t put yourself available to work a rest day on a Saturday late turn if you don’t want to?

Exactly.

 

[JonathanH]

That won't ever return, and it never really properly started, it was more of a trial.

It is a shame they can't put the North Downs timetable back to the sides of the hour it successfully operated to for over 25 years (which fits better with the commuting patterns at Guildford and East Surrey) and remove the unnecessary dwells in the stopping services at Guildford.

Case in point is that GWR have to run an out of cycle 0626 Reading to Gatwick and return service using a unit that would otherwise be spare to deal with a school flow between Redhill, Reigate and Dorking that would fit in the standard patterns if they were on the other side of the hour as they traditionally were.

 

[Melancholia]

Not seeing a return of 3tph on the North Downs line though. Seems that was an experimental phase for GWR!

Yeah of course, that ol' chestnut.

I have a feeling 3tph on the North Downs will appear properly if (yes, if) the 769s start running in service at some point in the next century

 

[JonathanH]

Yeah of course, that ol' chestnut.

I have a feeling 3tph on the North Downs will appear properly if (yes, if) the 769s start running in service at some point in the next century

No it won't. It has been withdrawn as an aspiration by GWR in their last track access application. Some attempt will be made instead to extend the Redhill stopping service to Gatwick (but not in December 2021).

 

[Melancholia]

No it won't. It has been withdrawn as an aspiration by GWR in their last track access application. Some attempt will be made instead to extend the Redhill stopping service to Gatwick.

Good to know, cheers

 

[Goldfish62]

No it won't. It has been withdrawn as an aspiration by GWR in their last track access application. Some attempt will be made instead to extend the Redhill stopping service to Gatwick (but not in December 2021).

Glad I did it when I had a chance.

 

[zoneking]

It is a shame they can't put the North Downs timetable back to the sides of the hour it successfully operated to for over 25 years (which fits better with the commuting patterns at Guildford and East Surrey) and remove the unnecessary dwells in the stopping services at Guildford.

I couldn't agree more. The old time was 17.50 or more recently, 17.49 for the stopper from Guildford to Redhill. This is much more convenient for commuting when work finishes at 17.30. The new time is 18.13 although the train could depart at 18.07. The result is that the new timetable puts an extra 23 minutes on arrival time home (for me).

 

[Horizon22]

I couldn't agree more. The old time was 17.50 or more recently, 17.49 for the stopper from Guildford to Redhill. This is much more convenient for commuting when work finishes at 17.30. The new time is 18.13 although the train could depart at 18.07. The result is that the new timetable puts an extra 23 minutes on arrival time home (for me).

People are a lot more flexible these days - I don't think the statement "when work finishes at 17.30" is true for as many people any more.

GWR looks to be running a full service, similar to the Dec 19, except of course the Superfast services to/from Bristol TM. Are there any others missing? Luckily the services most important to me (S. Wales - London going back to 2tph, and 1C01 0545 Paddington - Bristol TM) are returning

Still won't be a full 1tph Bedwyn IET service - although that's primarily due to the 80x cracks issue.

 

[Komma]

I haven't been through all the pages, so apologies if already mentioned. The last Abbey Flyer, Monday to Friday will be starting at Euston in passenger service at 21.10.Straight to Watford for the 21.33,I believe this is so the units can be swapped every day. This will mean the toilets can be opened on this service.
As a guard that works this route, I can see problems down the line, adding an extra driver and guard for the last trip onto already tight diagrams, in my opinion is not a good idea.

 

[infobleep]

Whats in the franchise is irrelevant now as its what the govt wants them to run but i suspect its just a cut and paste into the EMA so probably still in there and as GTR get a mgt fee on costs expended the more the better.

So there is still an incentive for companies to increase rail fares and keep them higher as opposed to running a service that benefits the patterns of the travelling public.

I am assuming running the Gatwick Express in this way will bring in more revenue than not, otherwise, why do it.

It is a shame they can't put the North Downs timetable back to the sides of the hour it successfully operated to for over 25 years (which fits better with the commuting patterns at Guildford and East Surrey) and remove the unnecessary dwells in the stopping services at Guildford.

Case in point is that GWR have to run an out of cycle 0626 Reading to Gatwick and return service using a unit that would otherwise be spare to deal with a school flow between Redhill, Reigate and Dorking that would fit in the standard patterns if they were on the other side of the hour as they traditionally were.

I would prefer the trains to be at the opposite times as it means you couldn't try a fast SWT train from Guilford, to Clapham Junction followed 4vor 5 minutes later by a direct train to Gatwick Airport and then neither for another hour.

Tomorrow the fast trains to Clapham Junction are departing x03 instead of x34. If inky they did that every day, save Sunday.

 

[Kite159]

I haven't been through all the pages, so apologies if already mentioned. The last Abbey Flyer, Monday to Friday will be starting at Euston in passenger service at 21.10.Straight to Watford for the 21.33,I believe this is so the units can be swapped every day. This will mean the toilets can be opened on this service.
As a guard that works this route, I can see problems down the line, adding an extra driver and guard for the last trip onto already tight diagrams, in my opinion is not a good idea.

That is certainly an unusual service (maybe as a "look you now have a direct train from London" PR spin). I suspect most nights it will end up getting cancelled, or run ECS from London to Watford where it will either re-enter traffic at Watford for the run to St Albans, or cancelled outright with a minibus on demand.

(I can see it being a bit popular with track bashers, at least in the first couple weeks, to get the connection from the mainline into platform 11)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

So there is still an incentive for companies to increase rail fares and keep them higher as opposed to running a service that benefits the patterns of the travelling public.

I am assuming running the Gatwick Express in this way will bring in more revenue than not, otherwise, why do it.

GTR don't take ticket revenue risk but will be delighted to add some more operating costs to the bottom line which they earn a fee on.

 

[brick60000]

That is certainly an unusual service (maybe as a "look you now have a direct train from London" PR spin). I suspect most nights it will end up getting cancelled, or run ECS from London to Watford where it will either re-enter traffic at Watford for the run to St Albans, or cancelled outright with a minibus on demand.

(I can see it being a bit popular with track bashers, at least in the first couple weeks, to get the connection from the mainline into platform 11)

May as well run it in passenger service, as the unit swap is now taking place every day M-F rather than once a week. Same guard/driver throughout EUS-SAA I imagine so shouldn’t cause any issues with performance by crew relieving at Watford.

 

[infobleep]

GTR don't take ticket revenue risk but will be delighted to add some more operating costs to the bottom line which they earn a fee on.

But won't they have operating costs whether it is a Gatwick Express or Southern branded service? ( As opposed to the branded trains).

Incidentally, running fast trains from Guildford to Clapham Junction at x34 it means the trains south are at x52. This means to head south you have a choice of x27, change at Woking and X52 direct.

If trains are x03, which I prefer as it is at the opposite half hour to the x40 to Gatwick Airport, you end up with an x22, x27 and nothing until x22 again.

In fact, I'm currently on an x42 stopper from Clapham Junction as that is faster.

 

[Chiltern006]

feel there's gonna be some confusion for a while regarding the gx thing. Brighton passengers have been used to red trains to Victoria under Southern for ages soooo

 

[JonathanH]

feel there's gonna be some confusion for a while regarding the gx thing. Brighton passengers have been used to red trains to Victoria under Southern for ages soooo

I don't think it affects them. There aren't any 'Not Gatwick Express' fares that don't have an 'Any Permitted' fare at the same rate.

 

[Ianno87]

GTR don't take ticket revenue risk but will be delighted to add some more operating costs to the bottom line which they earn a fee on.

Which will presumably be authorised by DfT on the grounds that the additional revenue from GatEx tickets will offset it.

 

[BucksBones]

LNR have removed the direct connection from Leighton Buzzard and Bletchley to Birmingham. They will have to remove all those signs that they put up that proudly proclaimed "Direct trains to Birmingham Airport".

I hope this is a temporary change as it makes journey times from the south WCML to Birmingham far longer for those who wish to use the cheaper LNR only tickets.

 

[JonathanH]

I hope this is a temporary change as it makes journey times from the south WCML to Birmingham far longer for those who wish to use the cheaper LNR only tickets.

I think it was cited elsewhere that there won't be a return to LNR running 3tph to Birmingham. Running unnecessary trains just for people to use cheaper LNR only tickets isn't great economics for the railway as a whole.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I think it was cited elsewhere that there won't be a return to LNR running 3tph to Birmingham. Running unnecessary trains just for people to use cheaper LNR only tickets isn't great economics for the railway as a whole.

Yeah, but what about 2tph?

 

[JonathanH]

Yeah, but what about 2tph?

There are still two trains an hour from Northampton to Birmingham in the December timetable and therefore still two LNR-only connections from London to Birmingham, one involving a change of trains.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

There are still two trains an hour from Northampton to Birmingham in the December timetable and therefore still two LNR-only connections from London to Birmingham, one involving a change of trains.

No, I meant 2tph from London Euston to Birmingham New Street direct LNWR.

 

[geoffk]

At least Marston Vale (and Abbey Line when applicable) get rail replacement buses - express and all stations. Here in the land of the forgotten (East Midlands Railway) we just have to suck it up on reduced services. On my local line just 60% service currently plus a couple of peak buses running part route, 80% service from December until who knows when.

What's the issue with these two lines (nowhere near me)? Is it shortage of stock or staff? Perhaps conversion of the Abbey Line to light rail was a good idea after all! On Marston Vale do the 230s still not work properly?