Do you think that the UK switching to electric vehicles is realistic?

[The Ham]

A single petrol station has at least two pumps, most have four or six. When you queye behind another car in the petrol station, they will be gone in 5 mins or less. Waiting for an EV to charge, plus charging yours and you've wasted an hour doing nothing.
Google images and pretty much every publication and car dealer cites not being able to shift their EV stock. People don't want them. Lots of people who rent houses won't pay to install charging ports on their drive and same for people who rent or own properties in terraced streets.

Most (about 65%) of homes have off street parking, therefore there's the potential for a lot of cars to not need to use a public charging point for 95% (or more) of their miles.

Add to that, the fact that petrol cars are still very much in the majority of fuel type vehicles on the UK roads and it's not really a problem that the number of public chargers is only just around the same number as petrol stations in the UK.

 

[Snow1964]

Charging points are rising and petrol stations closing. Fueling will become much more of an issue for ICE

It's now about 8350 petrol stations in UK, down from over 50,000 in 1950s.

But the number of pumps are similar, back in the 1950s many small petrol stations only had 2 pumps, now it's rare to find one with less than 8 pumps, and some sites have 12 or more pumps.

 

[Class 317]

There currently about 1 million EV's on the road with 92k charger connectors on 62k public chargers. That's one public charger connector for every 11 EV's. At the moment charger numbers are growing faster than the numbers of EV's so that figure will drop this year.

 

[The Ham]

There currently about 1 million EV's on the road with 92k charger connectors on 62k public chargers. That's one public charger connector for every 11 EV's. At the moment charger numbers are growing faster than the numbers of EV's so that figure will drop this year.

Even that sort of number (1:11), is probably still about right, as (assuming an equal distribution of off street parking properties to non) there's about 2:7 charger connections to EV's without off street parking. The reality is likely to be that it's more likely to be those with off street parking are going to have EV's at this stage of the cycle.

As the number of connections increases that ratio is likely to fall. However for a lot of people they are likely to only need to change twice a week, so a 2:7 ratio is potentially about right (especially if you can get to that sort of level for on street in a given area).

 

[Class 317]

Even that sort of number (1:11), is probably still about right, as (assuming an equal distribution of off street parking properties to non) there's about 2:7 charger connections to EV's without off street parking. The reality is likely to be that it's more likely to be those with off street parking are going to have EV's at this stage of the cycle.

As the number of connections increases that ratio is likely to fall. However for a lot of people they are likely to only need to change twice a week, so a 2:7 ratio is potentially about right (especially if you can get to that sort of level for on street in a given area).

The average driving distance per day is 18 miles meaning on average an EV will need to be charged is between once a week or once every 10 days depending on model.

 

[trebor79]

Most (about 65%) of homes have off street parking, therefore there's the potential for a lot of cars to not need to use a public charging point for 95% (or more) of their miles.

And there are solutions for those who don't have off street parking. Lamp post chargers, there's a company that embeds sockets in the pavement which a special lance plugs into.
I also would not be surprised to see a "gig economy" style service where someone picks up your car in the middle of the night, takes it to a local charge point and then drops it back off ready for you. Easy to do with eg Tesla and others that don't need a physical key.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And there are solutions for those who don't have off street parking. Lamp post chargers, there's a company that embeds sockets in the pavement which a special lance plugs into.
I also would not be surprised to see a "gig economy" style service where someone picks up your car in the middle of the night, takes it to a local charge point and then drops it back off ready for you. Easy to do with eg Tesla and others that don't need a physical key.

Realistically most people park their car for reasonably long periods in places other than home, predominantly work but also things like supermarkets, gyms, cinemas etc. The only problem with public charging is the extortionate cost which takes away most of the advantage.

Perhaps a price cap would help? Clearly it needs to cost more than the simple cost of the electricity in order to make a profit, but some charges are extortionately expensive. We price cap gas and electricity, why not charging costs?

 

[ExRes]

The WLTP range for a Corsa GS is 222 miles. That range is meant to be a consistent number that you can compare between different models of car, rather than the range that you would get in real world driving.

A 6 % drop in charge in 9 miles would give a pro rata range of 150 miles. Its not far off what you would expect.

Thanks for the info @bspahh While I'm well aware that petrol/diesel consumption information is and always has been far from accurate I feel this enormous anomaly with EV ranges is a major reason for people having big doubts about changing over, this WLTP lark seems like a total con, overclaiming by so much really shouldn't be allowed, I'm assuming that each charge gradually reduces the life, and therefore the range, of the battery as well although I hope that's not too quick a process

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks for the info @bspahh While I'm well aware that petrol/diesel consumption information is and always has been far from accurate I feel this enormous anomaly with EV ranges is a major reason for people having big doubts about changing over, this WLTP lark seems like a total con, overclaiming by so much really shouldn't be allowed,

WLTP is just a normalised means of comparing cars. Perhaps it should have had its own units rather than miles to prevent people misinterpreting it?

I'm assuming that each charge gradually reduces the life, and therefore the range, of the battery as well although I hope that's not too quick a process

Car batteries, unlike phones where the primary design pressure is to make something last 2-3 years (typical contract length) and as small, light and silent as possible, are actively cooled and managed, so the reduction, while it exists, is imperceptible until the car is well into "old banger" territory at which point someone who doesn't care will buy it as a runaround for short journeys like they do an old beat up Corsa now.

The car will rust away before the battery is unusable. Yes, there'll be odd exceptions, but there are odd exceptions with ICEs that can cost massively for a brand new engine, e.g. cambelts failing before the specified time.

Don't use old Nissan Leafs for comparison - as the earliest mainstream EV these have major flaws, in particular they don't have active battery temperature management so the capacity loss is much greater. But even so, a 50 mile range is still useful for an urban runaround if you've got off road charging.

I do feel an EV won't suit me yet for my long distance use, but if I didn't live alone (and thus only need one car for everything) I'd be seriously considering an old Leaf as a runaround, probably before going EV on the "big car".

 

[Noddy]

Just driven my first ever electric car, a 73 reg 900 mile Corsa GS courtesy car while my car is being serviced, power available went from 54% to 48% in 9 miles, does this sound acceptable? maybe I'm not getting something obvious, can this really equate to the cars range?

Thanks for the info @bspahh While I'm well aware that petrol/diesel consumption information is and always has been far from accurate I feel this enormous anomaly with EV ranges is a major reason for people having big doubts about changing over, this WLTP lark seems like a total con, overclaiming by so much really shouldn't be allowed, I'm assuming that each charge gradually reduces the life, and therefore the range, of the battery as well although I hope that's not too quick a process

It depends on all sorts of factors, but the GOM (guess-o-meter) and battery % aren’t reliable methods for short journeys. I suspect the main issue with your journey (loosing 6% in 9 miles) was that unless the car has been pre-heated/cooled it would typically use a lot of energy on the first few miles to heat/cool the car (and potentially the battery). Once everything is up to temperature the efficiency will normally improve. In my EV I can easily loose a couple of % and some miles just driving out the village if the car isn’t preheated. But on my last journey overall it was claiming 4.7m/kWh over 59 miles which is very good.

Regarding WLTP this also applies to petrol and diesel cars. So when you buy a car which the manufacturer claims does 60mpg (or whatever) that is based on the WLTP cycle and like with EVs the quoted figures are very unlikely to be achievable in the real world. This should be taken into consideration when you hear folk quoting figures for how much it cost to fuel/run their cars.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I also would not be surprised to see a "gig economy" style service where someone picks up your car in the middle of the night, takes it to a local charge point and then drops it back off ready for you. Easy to do with eg Tesla and others that don't need a physical key.

Surely for a Tesla the car would drive itself to charge? (whenever complete autonomy is allowed, which may be a while)

 

[GusB]

That's because
a) they are better in almost every respect (petrol heads who love the fart of an annoyingly loud exhaust aside)
b) the downsides are not big. And are outweighed by some margin by the upsides.
In my (EVangelist) opinion as exclusively an EV user since 2017. I speak from actual personal experience, not hearsay.

Responding to your point "a", it would appear that Hyundai has this option covered. The Fully Charged Show has just done a review of the Ioniq N which comes complete with petrolhead-pleasing noises and a flappy-paddle "gearbox".

Link to video is here:

 

[Ken H]

Responding to your point "a", it would appear that Hyundai has this option covered. The Fully Charged Show has just done a review of the Ioniq N which comes complete with petrolhead-pleasing noises and a flappy-paddle "gearbox".

Link to video is here:

having EV's make a noise is something thats needed. I was walking through a car park the other day and an EV nearly reversed over me. There was no sound from the car so I was unaware it was about to move. And the driver clearly wasnt paying attention.
What noise should they make?

 

[Energy]

having EV's make a noise is something thats needed. I was walking through a car park the other day and an EV nearly reversed over me. There was no sound from the car so I was unaware it was about to move. And the driver clearly wasnt paying attention.
What noise should they make?

Most already make a noise at low speed.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Correct. I think it may be a legal requiremenmt they are so fitted - although in some (at least) it can be turned off (once per "engine start"). It's only necessary and only works under around 15mph; above this speed, the tyre/road noise is the same as a normal* small petrol car (by which I mean, not something that is intentionally, or modified so as to be, irrationally noisy).

 

[trebor79]

Legal requirement to be fitted and not able to be turned off by the driver since sometime in 2022 I think. But of course anything before that which doesn't make a noise is grandfathered.