Cars like this will have awful depreciation.To answer the original question, then yes, cars like the Dacia Spring are making it more realistic for the UK to switch to electric cars.
Cars like this will have awful depreciation.To answer the original question, then yes, cars like the Dacia Spring are making it more realistic for the UK to switch to electric cars.
Is that a Series 1 Niro? Is it something that has been improved in the later models, or with software updates?For example our Kia Niro on the Norfolk country roads will start beeping and tugging the wheel either towards the ditch or the middle of the road because it doesn't work very well on twisty roads with variable widths. Pull out to overtake a cyclist and it'll try and steer you striaght into said cyclist! Kia answer is "The system is designed to work on highways". So why does the damn thing default to "on" all the time then? Oh, that'll be Euro NCAP...
On the Kia you can hold down a steering button for 3 seconds to turn it off, which I do the first time the stupid system reminds me of it's presence. Other people jam the button down with a piece of paper so it always turns itself off.
Its worth checking the videos of the NCAP crash tests on Youtube to get a feel for the performance in a crash. Crumple zones are designed to crumple, but you don't want to see intrusions into the passenger compartment.Edit: I'm more interested in the actual crash performance, as that's what actually saved my life and prevented me from being even minorly injured when I drove a Fiat 500 head on into another car at 55mph. None of the electronic stuff can save you from somebody pulling out of a country junction 6 feet away at that speed. Really was amazing to walk out of that uninjured. If that had happened in eg the Nissan Micra I used to drive 25 years ago I'd have been horrible mashed.
No, it's the new Niro EV. The LKA/LDWS is rubbish and way too intrusive. Works well on the motorway (albeit still a tad hyperactive) but is a definite hazard on typical British country roads.Is that a Series 1 Niro? Is it something that has been improved in the later models, or with software updates?
Indeed. That Fiat 500 was smashed to smithereens from the front bumper to the windscreen. Engine dropped nearly onto the road (as it's meant to, in days gone by it would have been pushed onto my lap). The windscreen was cracked from where something impacted from the inside. Other than that it was pristine.Its worth checking the videos of the NCAP crash tests on Youtube to get a feel for the performance in a crash. Crumple zones are designed to crumple, but you don't want to see intrusions into the passenger compartment.
It does not seem to be about gizmos, based on the NCAP summary the testing highlighted a high risk of life-threatening injuries for driver chest and rear passenger head in frontal crash tests and marginal chest protection in side impact. The Dacia Spring simply has a poor design for the cabin structure which does not protect occupants to the high standards for which Renault is knownThere is nothing unsafe about the car, it just doesn't have the same gizmos as others which game the NCAP rating.
Quite. But at least the most you can lose is £15kCars like this will have awful depreciation.
Though if you're leasing as previous posters have suggested is the usual method, the leasing company will take that into account when setting the payments level. If people are put off new electrics, there won't be second-hand ones down the line.Quite. But at least the most you can lose is £15k
(The slowest depreciating electric car is the aforementioned Porsche Taycan which loses 37% over 3 years or £30k+)
Edit:
High depreciation is bad for the original owner, but surely the second and subsequent owners benefit, and this must then be good for the whole electric car sector as one of the main arguments against electric cars is the purchase price.
Quite. But at least the most you can lose is £15k
(The slowest depreciating electric car is the aforementioned Porsche Taycan which loses 37% over 3 years or £30k+)
Edit:
High depreciation is bad for the original owner, but surely the second and subsequent owners benefit, and this must then be good for the whole electric car sector as one of the main arguments against electric cars is the purchase price.
Though if you're leasing as previous posters have suggested is the usual method, the leasing company will take that into account when setting the payments level. If people are put off new electrics, there won't be second-hand ones down the line.
It does not seem to be about gizmos, based on the NCAP summary the testing highlighted a high risk of life-threatening injuries for driver chest and rear passenger head in frontal crash tests and marginal chest protection in side impact. The Dacia Spring simply has a poor design for the cabin structure which does not protect occupants to the high standards for which Renault is known
Possibly true but some cars NCAPs are due to not having certain tech (of dubious utility). I don't know about the Spring, to be honest it isn't something i generally bother about when looking into cars.It does not seem to be about gizmos, based on the NCAP summary the testing highlighted a high risk of life-threatening injuries for driver chest and rear passenger head in frontal crash tests and marginal chest protection in side impact. The Dacia Spring simply has a poor design for the cabin structure which does not protect occupants to the high standards for which Renault is known
I’m not in a position to be driving an electric vehicle (rented property, parking area separate from house), but have noticed the huge depreciation of smaller electric cars; recently seen adverts for Peugeot e-2008s on 73 plates for half their original list prices and a year old Vauxhall Mokka-e for half price too.Quite. But at least the most you can lose is £15k
(The slowest depreciating electric car is the aforementioned Porsche Taycan which loses 37% over 3 years or £30k+)
Edit:
High depreciation is bad for the original owner, but surely the second and subsequent owners benefit, and this must then be good for the whole electric car sector as one of the main arguments against electric cars is the purchase price.
I seem to recall an article about the head of NCAP complaining that manufacturers were developing systems that technically comply with their requirements for five star ratings but are not really very useful in real life.Possibly true but some cars NCAPs are due to not having certain tech (of dubious utility). I don't know about the Spring, to be honest it isn't something i generally bother about when looking into cars.
Safety organisation Euro NCAP has said it expected more real-world development from carmakers implementing lane-keep assist systems.
“When we started to develop these tests [for lane-keep assist] our understanding was that vehicle manufacturers would not bring these systems in if they would upset their customers”, Euro NCAP secretary general Michiel van Ratingen told Wheels at an Australasian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP) media event this week.
Yet with lane support systems – such as lane-departure warning, emergency lane-keep assist and lane-trace assist – now necessary for a five-star safety rating, Euro NCAP and ANCAP are updating their protocols to include real-world testing.
Van Ratingen was asked about a few recent five-star models – including the Chery Omoda 5, Isuzu D-Max and MG 4 – that have aggressive emergency lane-keep inputs designed to ace the program's lab tests with little attention paid to real-world functionality.
“As it turned out, many vehicle manufacturers basically used that [test] as a blueprint for the system, which was never the intention for us. So [some manufacturers] basically said: ‘Okay, if I meet the test, that's fine. That's enough.’
LKA systems are generally very poorly implemented, the system on my mum's Renault Captur throws a wobbly if you attempt to give a cyclist the space required by the Highway Code
Most of the lane assist systems will allow you to overtake if you indicate.
But it starts beeping like the bomb in the circus in Octopussy if you cross right over the centre line, even if it is safe to do so. It encourages people to pass cyclists closer than is safe, and closer than is recommended by the highway code.Most of the lane assist systems will allow you to overtake if you indicate.
But it starts beeping like the bomb in the circus in Octopussy if you cross right over the centre line, even if it is safe to do so. It encourages people to pass cyclists closer than is safe, and closer than is recommended by the highway code.
If you need lane keeping technology, you shouldn't be on the road IMO.
I haven't driven the car often enough to determine what the issue is. No idea how it deals with a solid centre-line as I haven't attempted to cross one.Any centreline, or is it just incorrectly programmed not to allow passing a cyclist travelling at below whatever-the-speed-is (10mph I think?) by crossing a solid centreline?
If any centreline that's dangerous and should be illegal.
It's really an anti-fatigue measure on motorways and duals, and purely in that context it's a good thing (any driver can be fatigued and may not even realise). On single carriageways I'd agree it's dangerous particularly as per the above.
I can see the positive side on the fatigue front for sure, though I do feel the systems aren't yet at a standard to be deployed widely, particularly the systems that interact with the control of the vehicle. Passive systems that simply issue an audible warning and/or display a message on the dash are fine, if annoying.
I think Citroen developed something along those lines years ago.There are probably lessons from Boeing in there - stick shaker equivalent (seat shaker?), good, unexpected intervention, bad.
Interesting a it is, the latest batch of safety features on cars has nothing to do with switching to electric vehicles which happens to be the subject of this thread.With safety ratings now seemingly more about technology than physical safety (crumple zones etc) - and I understand the logic so it isn't a bad thing - car makers are all rushing to find ways to implement things like LKA - and must also want to keep costs down.
Some cars appear to have done some of the safety features very poorly. My current car just gives a warning with zero correction if I straddle a line (and sometimes even when I haven't, while at other times I could drive over a line and it does nothing), but my older car would steer (lightly) and was a lot more accurate. Cars like the MG4, at least on early software, seemed borderline dangerous from user reports.
I do wonder if a poor software implementation should reduce a score, as surely it isn't safe if it doesn't work as intended and can't earn a higher safety score.
I wonder if the car industry allows car makers to simply self declare that they comply, without thorough testing (which obviously costs time and money)?
They did, vibrates the seat when you crossed the white line.I think Citroen developed something along those lines years ago.
But it starts beeping like the bomb in the circus in Octopussy if you cross right over the centre line, even if it is safe to do so. It encourages people to pass cyclists closer than is safe, and closer than is recommended by the highway code.
If you need lane keeping technology, you shouldn't be on the road IMO.
It won't go off if you indicate. You should be indicating if going over the line anyway, so I don't see what the issue is.Any centreline, or is it just incorrectly programmed not to allow passing a cyclist travelling at below whatever-the-speed-is (10mph I think?) by crossing a solid centreline?
If any centreline that's dangerous and should be illegal.
It's really an anti-fatigue measure on motorways and duals, and purely in that context it's a good thing (any driver can be fatigued and may not even realise). On single carriageways I'd agree it's dangerous particularly as per the above.
The cars I've used with it will allow overtaking and lane changes as long as you indicate. You should be indicating if you will cross the centre line anyway.But it starts beeping like the bomb in the circus in Octopussy if you cross right over the centre line, even if it is safe to do so. It encourages people to pass cyclists closer than is safe, and closer than is recommended by the highway code.
There's no need to indicate if there's nobody around who will benefit. The old "mirror, signal, manoeuvre" thing is all well and good but it leads to an entitlement in some- a sort of "I signalled, so you have to let me in" mentality. By doing your observations properly you can determine if a signal is necessary. If it it's quiet, and the only traffic around is yourself and the vehicle you're passing, you shouldn't need to indicate as nobody will benefit from you doing so. The driving instructor Ashley Neal talks about this aspect on his YouTube channel.The cars I've used with it will allow overtaking and lane changes as long as you indicate. You should be indicating if you will cross the centre line anyway.
Interesting a it is, the latest batch of safety features on cars has nothing to do with switching to electric vehicles which happens to be the subject of this thread.
There's no need to indicate if there's nobody around who will benefit. The old "mirror, signal, manoeuvre" thing is all well and good but it leads to an entitlement in some- a sort of "I signalled, so you have to let me in" mentality. By doing your observations properly you can determine if a signal is necessary. If it it's quiet, and the only traffic around is yourself and the vehicle you're passing, you shouldn't need to indicate as nobody will benefit from you doing so. The driving instructor Ashley Neal talks about this aspect on his YouTube channel.
Anyway, my main issue with these systems is that they think they know better than the human, but more often than not they don't. Some might say "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good", but when it comes to things like this, anything less than perfect is definitely not good.