Does ‘the railway’ enjoy making things difficult for all its users?

[Fokx]

How does presenting and buying a ticket at a booking office make any difference?
Your aware those on priv ticket will be staff? If they're getting all irate at being checked then it's indicative off the culture on the railways.

In fairness it does make a massive difference.

Try telling a passenger the standard single they want to buy onboard is nearly triple figures and they can’t use their railcard compared to buying the single figure advance at the station or online.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where in the UK are there trains but not buses? I almost always have to take a bus first before I can think about the train.

Quite a lot of rural places these days.

For one example Woburn Sands has trains but no scheduled buses bar occasional routes.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Then perhaps it is the online sales which are doing it wrong - perhaps the online retailers ought to toughen up on preventing railcard fraud rather than booking office staff taking a passenger's word for it. One thing which springs to mind is for a customer to have to input a unique railcard number and their name when buying tickets online which are both stored in a 'valid railcard' database and for these to have to match in order for the discount to be applied.

It is also unfair on the guards if booking staff or online retailers aren't bothering to check that passengers have a valid railcard on them when asking for the discount, as it means the guard then often has to deal with the situation of 'discounted ticket without a valid railcard' and the potential confrontation this can cause, when the whole scenario could've been prevented by the booking office staff or online retailers asking for proof before applying the discount when selling the ticket.

How does showing a railcard at a booking office save the guard work?
If I went to a station 12 weeks before travel armed with my railcard to buy tickets, then 12 weeks later I travelled but forgot it, I've saved the guard no work at all! Having a railcard with you at the time of purchase achieves nothing. If you buy on the day then you've got it with you anyway and still saved the guard nothing.
I can't understand this argument at all. Plus you're forcing people to buy their Railcards earlier than they need to. Thus being unfriendly to customers.

 

[Dai Corner]

How does showing a railcard at a booking office save the guard work?
If I went to a station 12 weeks before travel armed with my railcard to buy tickets, then 12 weeks later I travelled but forgot it, I've saved the guard no work at all! Having a railcard with you at the time of purchase achieves nothing. If you buy on the day then you've got it with you anyway and still saved the guard nothing.
I can't understand this argument at all. Plus you're forcing people to buy their Railcards earlier than they need to. Thus being unfriendly to customers.

It helps if the passenger is buying tickets for immediate travel but has forgotten their railcard or it has expired. It also helps if buying tickets in advance and the card expires before the date of travel.

TVMs and online retailers should ask for the expiry date to mitigate against these situations too. They don't have to interrogate the Railcard database if that's difficult but it would be useful to print the date on the ticket. It would also help prove intent to avoid paying the correct fare if someone didn't hold a railcard but entered a fictional date.

 

[Philip]

I can't understand this argument at all. Plus you're forcing people to buy their Railcards earlier than they need to. Thus being unfriendly to customers.

Are you suggesting ticket office staff should potentially be applying a railcard discount to a ticket when the passenger hasn't even bought their railcard?

 

[Deerfold]

Are you suggesting ticket office staff should potentially be applying a railcard discount to a ticket when the passenger hasn't even bought their railcard?

So long as it's clear you need a Railcard to travel, I don't see what the problem with that is?

I had three sets of tickets bought to be used with my current railcard before I'd bought it (I bought it a little in advance of travel to ensure no on-the-day problems).

 

[Deafdoggie]

Are you suggesting ticket office staff should potentially be applying a railcard discount to a ticket when the passenger hasn't even bought their railcard?

Yes.

 

[Philip]

Yes.

Well this just shows that some of these suggestions to make the railway 'less difficult' for passengers can't be taken seriously.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well this just shows that some of these suggestions to make the railway 'less difficult' for passengers can't be taken seriously.

Why, when they could walk over to the TVM at that exact same station and purchase the exact same ticket without the Railcard?

It makes no sense whatsoever to have different policies at different points of sale.

 

[Philip]

Why, when they could walk over to the TVM at that exact same station and purchase the exact same ticket without the Railcard?

It makes no sense whatsoever to have different policies at different points of sale.

Like I say, it is for the online retailers and TVMs to toughen up on restrictions for issuing railcard discounts to create consistency; it's not for booking office, gateline and guard staff to become lax and start taking any old sod's word for it.

 

[Tester]

Well this just shows that some of these suggestions to make the railway 'less difficult' for passengers can't be taken seriously.

This is getting ridiculous!

If an adult is buying tickets for a group including children, travelling weeks ahead, would you seriously expect that the children must be taken to the station for inspection by the booking clerk?

Railcards at the booking office is a classic example of the whole point of the thread. All that is needed is a friendly, "Don't forget to take your railcards when you travel".

 

[AM9]

This is getting ridiculous!

If an adult is buying tickets for a group including children, travelling weeks ahead, would you seriously expect that the children must be taken to the station for inspection by the booking clerk?

Railcards at the booking office is a classic example of the whole point of the thread. All that is needed is a friendly, "Don't forget to take your railcards when you travel".

We've not seen any figures for the level of fraud with railcards, but judging by the number of posts here involving 'accidental' or othwerwise travel without a valid railcard that has been detected, the current trust with online and TVM pruchasing is clearly misplaced.

 

[Deafdoggie]

We've not seen any figures for the level of fraud with railcards, but judging by the number of posts here involving 'accidental' or othwerwise travel without a valid railcard that has been detected, the current trust with online and TVM pruchasing is clearly misplaced.

Why not go the whole hog and ask people to prove what they're doing at their destination to prove they aren't trying to donut?

Like I say, it is for the online retailers and TVMs to toughen up on restrictions for issuing railcard discounts to create consistency; it's not for booking office, gateline and guard staff to become lax and start taking any old sod's word for it.

And this post proves the answer to this thread is "yes"
It's this attitude why people buy cars.
XC once wanted me to get me to get my children (one of whom was 6, another profoundly deaf) to speak to them individually on the phone to them to claim delay repay!
It's this sort of unfriendly nonsense that drives people away.
I guess you want people buying children's tickets in advance to turn up with their children to? Or people booking disability assistance to show their disability. And if not then you're whole argument falls apart.

 

[bramling]

I agree with this, I've never experienced an industry that seems to openly treat it's customers as an inconvenience in the same way the railway does...

Royal Mail give them a run for their money at times!

 

[philthetube]

Are you suggesting ticket office staff should potentially be applying a railcard discount to a ticket when the passenger hasn't even bought their railcard?

I did not suggest anything, having not previously posted on this thread, but I would suggest that customers should not need to buy a railcard prior to needing it if buying an advance at a ticket office, and there are some who do, as I know after standing for ten mins in a queue behind one such passenger.

 

[AM9]

Why not go the whole hog and ask people to prove what they're doing at their destination to prove they aren't trying to donut?

Pointless statement and nothing to do with the thread subject.

It's this attitude why people buy cars.

I think shortcoming of the railway may contribute to why people buy cars but other than the inadequacy of the network, I doubt very much that such a petty concept that 'the railway enjoys making things difficult for all it's users' has any material impact on a decision to buy a car, - if it were so, then car manufacturers would jump on that when advertising.

XC once wanted me to get me to get my children (one of whom was 6, another profoundly deaf) to speak to them individually on the phone to them to claim delay repay!
It's this sort of unfriendly nonsense that drives people away.
I guess you want people buying children's tickets in advance to turn up with their children to? Or people booking disability assistance to show their disability. And if not then you're whole argument falls apart.

I've never heard of anything like your anecdote there and I would expect it to be reported, unless the claim was not on sound ground of course.

 

[Russel]

I think shortcoming of the railway may contribute to why people buy cars but other than the inadequacy of the network, I doubt very much that such a petty concept that 'the railway enjoys making things difficult for all it's users' has any material impact on a decision to buy a car, - if it were so, then car manufacturers would jump on that when advertising.

It may not convince people to buy a car but it will certainly doesn't help the railways image.

At a time when the railways are on their knees, staff should be doing everything they can to ensure passengers return. When you combine the effects of the almost weekly strikes, extortionate fares and the general inflexibility of the industry, it's hardly enticing people out of their cars.

I've had several days out with my son planned over the school summer holidays, all by train, but most of the money I would have put into the fare box I've now put into the tank of my car...

 

[AM9]

It may not convince people to buy a car but it will certainly doesn't help the railways image.

At a time when the railways are on their knees, staff should be doing everything they can to ensure passengers return. When you combine the effects of the almost weekly strikes, extortionate fares and the general inflexibility of the industry, it's hardly enticing people out of their cars.

I've had several days out with my son planned over the school summer holidays, all by train, but most of the money I would have put into the fare box I've now put into the tank of my car...

The question asked is a long term one refwerring to long standing practices (good or bad) some mistakenly addressing long term problems (fraudulent travel). We have no figures here regarding the volume of fraud associated with railcards, but if it is significant then ignoring it might be a good thing for the few that think it's worthwhile, but everybody else will be paying for it which is another aspect of the railway in general that might dissuade travel.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I've never heard of anything like your anecdote there and I would expect it to be reported, unless the claim was not on sound ground of course.

I assure you it's true and there was nothing dubious in the claim. Simply XC policy that everyone must claim their own delay repay and one person can't claim for a group. A policy still there now on their website.

 

[AM9]

I assure you it's true and there was nothing dubious in the claim. Simply XC policy that everyone must claim their own delay repay and one person can't claim for a group. A policy still there now on their website.

I didn't dispute it, not only have I never heard of it, nor have I ever been on Cross Country trains. It is though, as I said an anecdote.

 

[Deerfold]

Like I say, it is for the online retailers and TVMs to toughen up on restrictions for issuing railcard discounts to create consistency; it's not for booking office, gateline and guard staff to become lax and start taking any old sod's word for it.

No-one is suggesting guards and gateline staff become lax - indeed we're pointing out that this is the correct point to check if someone has their railcard, not where it makes it harder than it need be to buy a product.

Reminds me of my local station repeatedly refusing to sell me a local Day Ranger ticket before it was valid (valid after 0930, not available from TVMs, available at the time from the bus station at the other end of town up to a couple of years in advance, now available by app up to a year in advance. First valid train from station 0932).

 

[Deafdoggie]

Reminds me of my local station repeatedly refusing to sell me a local Day Ranger ticket before it was valid (valid after 0930, not available from TVMs, available at the time from the bus station at the other end of town up to a couple of years in advance, now available by app up to a year in advance. First valid train from station 0932).

Exactly. Selling in earlier with a cheerful "it can't be used till half nine" is the sensible approach.

I didn't dispute it, not only have I never heard of it, nor have I ever been on Cross Country trains. It is though, as I said an anecdote.

Isn't this whole thread anecdotes of things the railway does to make life harder for it's passengers?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly. Selling in earlier with a cheerful "it can't be used till half nine" is the sensible approach.

Booking offices have a "restrictions advised" stamp for this exact reason.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Booking offices have a "restrictions advised" stamp for this exact reason.

Surely they could use that when selling a railcard ticket to?

 

[45517]

Like I say, it is for the online retailers and TVMs to toughen up on restrictions for issuing railcard discounts to create consistency; it's not for booking office, gateline and guard staff to become lax and start taking any old sod's word for it.

You mean paying customers, nice. Your attitude is exactly what this thread's about, you're actually advocating that the railway should make it it more difficult for its users.

 

[Deafdoggie]

You mean paying customers, nice. Your attitude is exactly what this thread's about, you're actually advocating that the railway should make it it more difficult for its users.

I suspect they are rail staff. And the point of the thread is therefore proved!

 

[AM9]

Exactly. Selling in earlier with a cheerful "it can't be used till half nine" is the sensible approach.


Isn't this whole thread anecdotes of things the railway does to make life harder for it's passengers?

Twice last year the booking office Chester sold me a day ranger the evening before it was valid.

Exactly. Selling in earlier with a cheerful "it can't be used till half nine" is the sensible approach.


Isn't this whole thread anecdotes of things the railway does to make life harder for it's passengers?

Not everybody seems to have the same issues, and many are not making thinh=gs difficult at all. It is the nature of social media discussions that attract complaints more than plaudits and the number of posts saying "well there were no problems" is usually very low because it is generally so unremarkable.

 

[Ken H]

But they do! Forget your club card, no problem, keep the receipt and they're added next time. You try getting a railcard discount added afterwards!

some retailers allow you to give your name and postcode and they find your loyalty card account and add in the points. So why cant a ticket office do that to get you the railcard discount - that you have paid for?

 

[yorkie]

Are you suggesting ticket office staff should potentially be applying a railcard discount to a ticket when the passenger hasn't even bought their railcard?

If the travel date is in the future, of course!

 

[nanstallon]

Sadly, the railways have a generally negative and suspicious attitude towards their customers. In the last years of British Rail there had been a definite improvement in the treatment of passengers, but the situation hyas since gone backwards. There is an attitude of 'I've got a job for life, the customer can get stuffed'. Not surprisingly, people don't like it, and many think, 'sod it, let's get in the car'. Of course, this is only a generalisation - there are a lot of railway workers with a sense of public service, and road travel has plenty of its own frustrations.

A little way back, somebody was saying that there are places with a railway station and no bus service. In Cornwall, that is seldom the case, but St Germans is about to lose its bus service this September. The train service is brilliant, however.