ECML weekend first - members view on the choice

[WesternLancer]

I'd be interested in people's views on the choice I should make.

I have to admit that the ability to choose a Mk4 set may well swing it - but I am considering a Weekend First upgrade for a trip from Newark or Grantham to Kings Cross.

I think I am correct to say that this is a rather steep for the distance (IMHO) £35 with LNER or £25 with Hull Trains. Obv I will get a larger seat and hopefully a calmer environment, and I see I will get a food offer with both (tho looks like not hot with Hull Trains - making the £10 extra to LNER a pricey energy supplement to serve something warm like a bacon roll )

Assuming I have got my facts correct (corrections welcome).

What do other users of the 2 services think represents the best value or things I should consider when making my choice. For me 'value' does not mean 'cheapest'.

I need walk up flexibility so Advance 1st priced tickets are not an option on this occasion.

Thanks in advance

 

[jamiearmley]

SEATFROG.

Every time.

First class upgrade off any standard ticket normally between a tenner and twenty quid.

For example, I had a KGX LDS upgrade last week for £16, ended up with a full cooked meal with dessert, and 8 cans on ale.

 

[yorkie]

There is no guarantee of availability with Seatfrog; the more popular the train, the lower the chances.

There is no way I'd be paying £35 more just for Grantham to London, and especially not in the southbound direction!

On rare occasions I may pay something in the region of £30 more for York to London but generally only if I am likely to be wanting to use the lounge (more likely heading north) and/or if I know the train is likely to be packed.. I do generally go in First because the difference for me is usually something in the region of £15 to £25 for a journey of 1h50 to 2h20 from York to London, so maybe my views are a bit skewed by that.

 

[phoenix1589]

There is no guarantee of availability with Seatfrog; the more popular the train, the lower the chances.

Is there any way to know generally how popular a train at a given time, on a given day, is likely to be?

 

[yorkie]

Is there any way to know generally how popular a train at a given time, on a given day, is likely to be?

Not easily.

But if you are planning a journey, post in the Trip Planning section and there is a good chance that regulars along the route will have an idea, and advise accordingly.

For example I've got a pretty good idea for various lines in my area, and depending on the date I'll also know to check events such as horse racing, football etc.

 

[WesternLancer]

SEATFROG.

Every time.

First class upgrade off any standard ticket normally between a tenner and twenty quid.

For example, I had a KGX LDS upgrade last week for £16, ended up with a full cooked meal with dessert, and 8 cans on ale.

There is no guarantee of availability with Seatfrog; the more popular the train, the lower the chances.

There is no way I'd be paying £35 more just for Grantham to London, and especially not in the southbound direction!

On rare occasions I may pay something in the region of £30 more for York to London but generally only if I am likely to be wanting to use the lounge (more likely heading north) and/or if I know the train is likely to be packed.. I do generally go in First because the difference for me is usually something in the region of £15 to £25 for a journey of 1h50 to 2h20 from York to London, so maybe my views are a bit skewed by that.

Obv these are fair points, but it is not really the amount of money I am asking about (after all that is made clear by the operators) - it's what you get for it between LNER and HT that I'm really asking for views on.

Tho thanks for those views and info.

 

[WesternLancer]

So a bit of an update on this as have now done it twice on LNER and once on Hull Trains - all from Grantham to London - so

- my motivation was a fair bit to sample LNER 225 set 1st class interior experience on trips where I needed a flexible ticket, so I achieved that once but of course at a cost (on the other LNER trip there was a 225 cancellation so I was in the next available train which was an Azuma). That may not be most people's motivation, so these comments relate to the service really, not the rolling stock
but

- basic 1st class seating - most will know the score on that but suffice to say it's more comfortable, spacious, quiet and pleasant on either type of LNER train and on Hull Trains

- catering - LNER: hot food from breakfast menu is pleasant enough, tho not greatest quality of food like the proper cooked breakfasts of previous eras (albeit they did not happen at weekends), drinks were served - I think I was offered tea twice and had a fruit juice

- but on my second trip although the steward greeted me when I boarded (so knew I had got on) I was never offered any service at all! Food was present as other passengers had already been served it it. If I am being generous I suspect someone just forgot to come and find me. In retrospect I should have got up and asked for service, but I was awaiting the train Manger to come round to take payment and I felt it inappropriate to demand a service I had not at that moment paid for.
In the event the Train Manger did not come round until well after Stevenage. On payment I explained I had been offered no service, I was given a verbal apology but an explanation that the 'upgrade is for the seat' - A rule I knew. £35 for the seat and no refreshment offer at all is v poor value for money over that distance...
I have written to LNER customer services to ask if they would consider a good will part refund / rail vouchers of the upgrade under the circs. I await their response in due course.

- Catering - Hull Trains: Their upgrade is £25 and the interior is similar to the Azuma so no real difference in environment. Catering involved an offer of one hot drink with biscuits (no soft drinks or juices offered). I asked for a 2nd cup of tea and this was provided but not offered. Food offer at that time was an offer of sausage or bacon ciabatta type thing (not sure what a vegetarian would be offered but assume there is something). This was OK but I thought a bit weird that it is served without butter so on the dry side. Ketchup was provided but since I don't like it, the food was thus on the dry side and a bit 'basic'.

Conclusion - so you do get more for your money with LNER (if they actually serve you...) but I'm not convinced it is worth the £10 more!

 

[kkong]

I travelled on LNER from Kings Cross to Edinburgh last Saturday (a strike day) and bought Weekend First on board for £45.

First class was no more than 25% occupied and the on-board staff (I assume non-RMT) were universally cheery and pleasant.

Catering was understandably limited due to the short staffing (the "Deli" offering), but I was offered a sandwich and 6 rounds of hot / cold drinks over the course of the journey.

In summary, I consider that the combination of extra comfort, personal space and catering were well worth the price for a journey taking over 4.5 hours.

I've not used Hull Trains for a long time, so I can't comment on their offerings.

 

[WesternLancer]

I travelled on LNER from Kings Cross to Edinburgh last Saturday (a strike day) and bought Weekend First on board for £45.

First class was no more than 25% occupied and the on-board staff (I assume non-RMT) were universally cheery and pleasant.

Catering was understandably limited due to the short staffing (the "Deli" offering), but I was offered a sandwich and 6 rounds of hot / cold drinks over the course of the journey.

In summary, I consider that the combination of extra comfort, personal space and catering were well worth the price for a journey taking over 4.5 hours.

I've not used Hull Trains for a long time, so I can't comment on their offerings.

I would certainly agree that over that journey duration it's OK - obv my trip at c1 hour and a bit is pushing it value wise at the £35 price, but I knew that when I embarked on it thanks to advice here.

 

[kkong]

Worth noting that LNER seemed to have blocked ticket sales and seat reservations for my train several days in advance of travel.

I assume this was due to the strike.

I didn't check, but I assume Seatfrog wouldn't have been available either.

 

[wellhouse]

There have been many threads exploring perceptions and value offered with First Class fares.

What is sometimes overlooked is the differential between First and Standard. Should you be considering Hull Trains, you should be aware there is no standard class catering at all. At Hull Paragon, they actually have posters advising standard class passengers to purchase refreshments before departure.

If you are on LNER and coffee is your thing, you have a wider selection available in Standard for purchase at the shop than the current complimentary filter coffee in First.

What matters to you?

 

[WesternLancer]

There have been many threads exploring perceptions and value offered with First Class fares.

What is sometimes overlooked is the differential between First and Standard. Should you be considering Hull Trains, you should be aware there is no standard class catering at all. At Hull Paragon, they actually have posters advising standard class passengers to purchase refreshments before departure.

If you are on LNER and coffee is your thing, you have a wider selection available in Standard for purchase at the shop than the current complimentary filter coffee in First.

What matters to you?

point well made