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Energy Price Hike- all Hype ?

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Butts

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Have the recent price increases announced been blown out of all proportion ?

The average dual-fuel bill is going up to about £1400 per year.

I bet a lot of members spend more than that on Petrol every year , indeed I cough up more on cigarettes each year.

We still have amongst the cheapest prices in Europe yet we are still moaning.

Does anyone seriously believe prices would be lower had the industry not been privatised and still government run.

The rise is about £100 or less than the price of one Latte per week.

What's all the fuss about :p
 
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High Dyke

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Had a letter this morning from my energy supplier explaining why they had to increase prices...citing Government policies, wholesale prices etc... I didn't see anything mentioned about increased profits for shareholders to enjoy...

It also stated that "due to OfGen rules the paperless billing discount was ending." For people like my Mother that do not have internet, let alone a computer, this is some good news; it means she isn't being penalised for not having such technology.
 

Aictos

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Umm, put it this way the energy firms make a lot of profit yet at the first mention of the words Bill Freeze from central Government, the first response from the energy firms is negative scaremondering about power cuts.

IMO I think the energy firms have been overcharging UK Public far too much for far too long, when they were privatised it was to encourage competition and low prices but all we got was high prices :(

In short, I think the energy firms have got a gall to keep putting up prices and not giving something in return, why can't more of the profits they make go into improving the service rather then into the pockets of shareholders.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24213366
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24396400
 

455driver

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+1 from me HLE 13, the (foreign) energy companies are taking the wee wee out of UK PLC, its very illuminating to see what they charge in their native Countries (who says European subsidies dont exist)! ;)
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Does all the heartsearching about climate change and "renewables in energy" to help to combat this in a move away from fossil fuel consumption mean anything whatsoever, when economies such as China and India will totally disregard any such sentiments ?

To me, it is all about the real matter of capital having free rein to increase its profit margins. All these supposedly "green methods" of energy generation are nothing more than a smokescreen to cover the real reason.

If the Government are so keen on insulation of properties, let those with the wish for this to occur do so by all means (as we have done at our own cost despite both of us being retired), but let us not forget that much of the social housing built by local authorities and now administered by housing associations fall into this category. Why should I be expected to pay a surcharge on my fuel bills to help those organisations ?
 

yorksrob

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Have the recent price increases announced been blown out of all proportion ?

The average dual-fuel bill is going up to about £1400 per year.

I bet a lot of members spend more than that on Petrol every year , indeed I cough up more on cigarettes each year.

We still have amongst the cheapest prices in Europe yet we are still moaning.

Does anyone seriously believe prices would be lower had the industry not been privatised and still government run.

The rise is about £100 or less than the price of one Latte per week.

What's all the fuss about :p

Overall, domestic fuel has doubled since 2004, so this is bound to have a negative impact.

Also, don't forget that cold living conditions have a very real effect on exacerbating illnesses such as cardio vascular and respiratory disease, feeding into increased excess winter deaths, and this is particularly an issue as many of the most susceptible people on fixed incomes live in older inefficient properties which cost more to heat in the first place.

Also, i don't doubt that other countries pay more for their fuel, but they also tend to have a longer term, strategic outlook on the production of energy, i.e they don't have the problems of lack of gas storage and power stations coming off line with nothing to replace them with, both of which will lead to a lot of volatility of domestic prices here in the near future.

The fact that as a country, we seem to have to go begging cap-in-hand to foreign powers and multinationals, just to get a power station built, suggests to me that there is a problem with long term energy policy in this country.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If the Government are so keen on insulation of properties, let those with the wish for this to occur do so by all means (as we have done at our own cost despite both of us being retired), but let us not forget that much of the social housing built by local authorities and now administered by housing associations fall into this category. Why should I be expected to pay a surcharge on my fuel bills to help those organisations ?

Certainly in my neck of the woods, public sector housing tends to be on average more energy efficient because it tends to be newer and suitable for cheaper insulation measures, and has already been subject to various insulation programmes over the years.

The bigger issues are with raising efficiency standards in low income private housing (particularly private rented) and older properties without cavity walls - and just to make things more difficult, there is a lot of overlap between these two sub-sectors.

The problem with funding energy efficiency measures through fuel tariffs is that those who need the help most are already paying proportionally more for their energy, even though they are in less of a position to do so. It would be less regressive to fund those programmes through general taxation.
 

DarloRich

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Did you know that the robbing energy companies make an £65 profit on the average bill & only 2% of any bill is reinvested in the network?

Or that while the whole sale price of energy has risen just 3.2 % since August 2009 a dual fuel bill has risen 24%

They are robbing us blind.

(plus the transmission network and future generation base is in such a poor state because the private companies have trousered such massive profits and paid such good dividends rather than reinvesting. That means we the poor consumers have to pay MORE. Look at how the price has been driven down by private sector ownership - Thatchers Britain at it's best!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Have the recent price increases announced been blown out of all proportion ?

The average dual-fuel bill is going up to about £1400 per year.

I bet a lot of members spend more than that on Petrol every year , indeed I cough up more on cigarettes each year.

We still have amongst the cheapest prices in Europe yet we are still moaning.

Does anyone seriously believe prices would be lower had the industry not been privatised and still government run.

The rise is about £100 or less than the price of one Latte per week.

What's all the fuss about :p

As for it not being much extra to find, i know people ( both young and old) who have real choices to make about if they can afford to turn the heating on!
 
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Butts

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Did you know that the robbing energy companies make an £65 profit on the average bill & only 2% of any bill is reinvested in the network?

I believe their profit margins are on a par with supermarkets

Or that while the whole sale price of energy has risen just 3.2 % since August 2009 a dual fuel bill has risen 24%

Lies damn lies and statistics springs to mind

They are robbing us blind.

(plus the transmission network and future generation base is in such a poor state because the private companies have trousered such massive profits and paid such good dividends rather than reinvesting. That means we the poor consumers have to pay MORE. Look at how the price has been driven down by private sector ownership - Thatchers Britain at it's best!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do you honestly believe the prices would be cheaper if the state was still running the show


As for it not being much extra to find, i know people ( both young and old) who have real choices to make about if they can afford to turn the heating on!

If that is true then some assistance should be afforded to a genuine case of need but not lifestyle choices

Be honest to the vast majority £100 is a drop in the ocean, one cup of coffee a week. Perhaps they should have put it up by £200 and used the other £100 to help those in need.
 

Captain Chaos

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The problem is though, I'm sure their is some profiteering going somewhere in these hikes. They are private companies. They exist to make profit ultimately. But our energy is mostly sourced from fossil fuels or sources that are not renewable. Like any commodity, the scarcer a resource becomes the higher it's value will go. Not to mention the ever increasing costs incurred by needing to use different ways and technologies to maximise extraction of these fuels. People complain about green energy and say it's a waste of money, but we are going to have to evolve our energy systems somehow. Our current methods of energy creation are going to run out eventually. We need to look at, invest and create more sustainable energy for the future. Otherwise we are all up the swanny!
 

Butts

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The problem is though, I'm sure their is some profiteering going somewhere in these hikes. They are private companies. They exist to make profit ultimately. But our energy is mostly sourced from fossil fuels or sources that are not renewable. Like any commodity, the scarcer a resource becomes the higher it's value will go. Not to mention the ever increasing costs incurred by needing to use different ways and technologies to maximise extraction of these fuels. People complain about green energy and say it's a waste of money, but we are going to have to evolve our energy systems somehow. Our current methods of energy creation are going to run out eventually. We need to look at, invest and create more sustainable energy for the future. Otherwise we are all up the swanny!

Forget all the "tree hugging" solutions their impact is minimal - Nuclear is the way forward :idea:
 

jb

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Forget all the "tree hugging" solutions their impact is minimal - Nuclear is the way forward :idea:

Could hardly be wider of the mark. For domestic, residential electricity in particular, anything other than "tree hugging solutions" is absolute insanity.
 

Butts

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Could hardly be wider of the mark. For domestic, residential electricity in particular, anything other than "tree hugging solutions" is absolute insanity.

As yet they are unable to generate enough power to make a real difference , and are unlikely to be able to for many years.
 

Captain Chaos

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As yet they are unable to generate enough power to make a real difference , and are unlikely to be able to for many years.

I agree with you for now. I believe renewable energy does have a future. But it does still need work. It's more likely that we will need a solution that encompasses a range of different renewables, not just one. Nuclear can only really be a stop gap. There' only so much of the required material for that in the world too. At the moment I feel that we are entering a nuclear age. We need to continue to develop other solutions too during this phase though. We can't keep using finite resources forever.
 

jb

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I agree with you for now. I believe renewable energy does have a future. But it does still need work.

This is (used as) an excuse to do nothing (right now). There are no technological barriers to very significant degrees of penetration of renewables into the domestic electricity market more or less immediately. There are no economic barriers either, other than those raised by those with vested interests.
 

Clip

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We should just get thousands of hamsters in wheels to power our homes.


I may have been down this route before on here ;)
 

Clip

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I see that RWE npower are the latest group to sing from the same hymn sheet extolling large price rises of the energy suppliers today.

Yup. Maybe people should stop shouting about how they are going to freeze fuel prices if they get into power.. This was forecast by many when they opened their mouths and bingo, up goes the fuel prices.

Will make sure i have plenty of logs in for this winter too - last year it lasted far too long and never had enough
 

WelshBluebird

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Yup. Maybe people should stop shouting about how they are going to freeze fuel prices if they get into power.. This was forecast by many when they opened their mouths and bingo, up goes the fuel prices.

Sorry I can't agree with that. The energy companies would have put their prices up regardless. To suggest that the only reason the prices have gone up is because of some spiel from politicians is just silly.
 

Zoidberg

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...

If the Government are so keen on insulation of properties, let those with the wish for this to occur do so by all means (as we have done at our own cost despite both of us being retired), but let us not forget that much of the social housing built by local authorities and now administered by housing associations fall into this category. Why should I be expected to pay a surcharge on my fuel bills to help those organisations ?

Hear, hear! I object to funding others' insulation projects.
 
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Clip

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Sorry I can't agree with that. The energy companies would have put their prices up regardless. To suggest that the only reason the prices have gone up is because of some spiel from politicians is just silly.

Possibly so, but we always know theyre going to go up just before winter but I cant remember a jump at 10% or such like. Cant be a conincidence either,,,, cant it?:lol:
 

Wyvern

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As for nuclear power:
Just a few short weeks after deriding Ed Miliband's plan to cap energy prices for 20 months as "price fixing" and "interference in the market" the Tory led government has signed up to a ludicrous 35 year price fixing deal with the French state run energy company EdF, in return for the construction of a new nuclear power station at Hinkley Point C in Somerset.

The Rip-off deal
The deal that has been agreed is an absolutely astonishing rip-off for the British taxpayer. The UK government has guaranteed to buy electricity from the new reactor at £92.50 per megawatt hour, which is almost double the actual market rate. The difference between the market rate for electricity and the strike rate of £92.50 will be made up by the taxpayer using Contracts for Difference (CfDs). This means that the electricity consumer will be paying for their electricity twice; once by buying it on the electricity market, and again through the taxes necessary in order to pay for the price fixing subsidies.

Dr Paul Dorfman, from the Energy Institute at University College London has calculated that these CfD subsidies will cost the taxpayer around £800 million - £1 billion per year. Over the 35 year life of the contract this will add up to a taxpayer funded subsidy of £28 billion - £35 billion, which is double the estimated £14 - £16 billion construction cost of the entire facility!

David Cameron is lying again

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/35-years-tory-price-fixing.html

What is up with these people?

Meanwhile the idea of French/Chinese reactors makes me fee distinclty nervous. Does anyone know how these compare?

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/nov/09/miniature-nuclear-reactors-los-alamos

Nuclear power plants smaller than a garden shed and able to power 20,000 homes will be on sale within five years, say scientists at Los Alamos, the US government laboratory which developed the first atomic bomb.

The miniature reactors will be factory-sealed, contain no weapons-grade material, have no moving parts and will be nearly impossible to steal because they will be encased in concrete and buried underground.

The US government has licensed the technology to Hyperion, a New Mexico-based company which said last week that it has taken its first firm orders and plans to start mass production within five years. 'Our goal is to generate electricity for 10 cents a kilowatt hour anywhere in the world,' said John Deal, chief executive of Hyperion. 'They will cost approximately $25m [£16m] each. For a community with 10,000 households, that is a very affordable $2,500 per home.'
 

ainsworth74

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Meanwhile the idea of French/Chinese reactors makes me fee distinclty nervous.

Why? Have the French had a string of nuclear incidents in the decades that they've operated such plants? Also it's Chinese investment, not reactor technology (and even then I'd ask the same question) the reactor is a French design, I believe one quite similar to something they're currently building in Normandy (though I may have misheard this mornings news).
 

Wyvern

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I guess it's just me. I've had bad experiences with French products over the years.

Another oddity is that both are public companies which we keep being told are not as efficient as private enterprise.
 

455driver

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Why is this being built using French and Chinese money (which means we will be paying double our current rates for the electricity) instead of using our own money?

They could print more money to bail out their banker mates but they cant print any to save the great British public, makes me sick. <D
 

bb21

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Why is this being built using French and Chinese money (which means we will be paying double our current rates for the electricity) instead of using our own money?

Probably because we don't have any money.
 

yorksrob

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Curious how socialist France has the money to build power stations, yet thrusting capitalist Britain hasn't got two ha'penny's to rub together !
 

455driver

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So print some!
Its what they did last time.

This 'deal' is going to cost us (the public) a bloomin fortune in the near future.
 
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Question. If price fixing for 20 months is Marxism when Labour propose it, what is price fixing for 35 years when the Tories do it with the Chinese Communist Party?

Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk 2
 

bb21

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Question. If price fixing for 20 months is Marxism when Labour propose it, what is price fixing for 35 years when the Tories do it with the Chinese Communist Party?

Depends on who you listen to and which paper you read. ;)

So print some!
Its what they did last time.

This 'deal' is going to cost us (the public) a bloomin fortune in the near future.

I wish it was always that simple. :(
 
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