Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[SuperLuke2334]

Is this the first time?

No, its definitely done it a few times before, don't know the exact number though!

 

[Techniquest]

It definitely did the service on 1st April, I was on it out of Manchester and for a while I was considering paying out for last minute tickets to do the 67 all the way to Swansea!

 

[southernyoshi]

Hi, I've been advised to ask this here - does anyone know which trains out of Shrewsbury towards Manchester or Chester at or around 10:20am on weekdays next week (25 April specifically) are Mark 4 or 197-run? And the same for trains arriving from these places before 17:30? Sorry for the detail of the question but I don't know if there's an easy place to find these details, and I want a ride on a new train! (It's not every day they come to these parts lol)

(I just pasted this in here from a thread I started - I see Mark 4 diagram on the last page, I assume they're still current? Do 197s come to Shrewsbury yet?)

 

[L401CJF]

Hi, I've been advised to ask this here - does anyone know which trains out of Shrewsbury towards Manchester or Chester at or around 10:20am on weekdays next week (25 April specifically) are Mark 4 or 197-run? And the same for trains arriving from these places before 17:30? Sorry for the detail of the question but I don't know if there's an easy place to find these details, and I want a ride on a new train! (It's not every day they come to these parts lol)

(I just pasted this in here from a thread I started - I see Mark 4 diagram on the last page, I assume they're still current? Do 197s come to Shrewsbury yet?)

As far as I know there's only 1x197 in service to Shrewsbury which is the last one of the night from Chester.

Unsure on the MK4 sets off the top of my head, but I'm sure somebody will assist with that shortly!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Hi, I've been advised to ask this here - does anyone know which trains out of Shrewsbury towards Manchester or Chester at or around 10:20am on weekdays next week (25 April specifically) are Mark 4 or 197-run? And the same for trains arriving from these places before 17:30? Sorry for the detail of the question but I don't know if there's an easy place to find these details, and I want a ride on a new train! (It's not every day they come to these parts lol)

(I just pasted this in here from a thread I started - I see Mark 4 diagram on the last page, I assume they're still current? Do 197s come to Shrewsbury yet?)

No Mk4s or 197s to Manchester or Chester at that time! 197s only have a late night to Shrewsbury so far, Mk4s the closest time north to that is 1251 Manchester and 1330 Holyhead.

 

[Jez]

No Mk4s or 197s to Manchester or Chester at that time! 197s only have a late night to Shrewsbury so far, Mk4s the closest time north to that is 1251 Manchester and 1330 Holyhead.

It looks like the late night Shrewsbury is a 175 tonight so a 197 is not always be guaranteed at the moment.

The MK4 introduction is been pretty poor so far, they might as well have waited until May to split the timetable for the Manchester's every 2 hours!

 

[southernyoshi]

Out of interest, when do 197s start to get to Shrewsbury services? Aren't they even due on my actual local line (the Cambrian) at some point, or are they keeping the 158s here because of the... interesting signalling we have?

 

[L401CJF]

Out of interest, when do 197s start to get to Shrewsbury services? Aren't they even due on my actual local line (the Cambrian) at some point, or are they keeping the 158s here because of the... interesting signalling we have?

197s will eventually displace the 158s on Cambrian services, but I believe its one of the last to switch over.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Out of interest, when do 197s start to get to Shrewsbury services? Aren't they even due on my actual local line (the Cambrian) at some point, or are they keeping the 158s here because of the... interesting signalling we have?

Cambrian will be the last to switch over next year. 21 x 197s are fitted with the signalling system to replace the 158s. Other services around Shrewsbury, not sure yet.

 

[Jez]

197s will eventually displace the 158s on Cambrian services, but I believe its one of the last to switch over.

The rate they are going i wouldn't be surprised if its 2025 before we get them on the Cambrian services in full!

 

[craigybagel]

Should start to see them throughout the day at Shrewsbury on Cardiff - Holyhead services soon. They're diagrammed for most of these services from May. There should even be one stabled on Abbey Foregate every night. Whether that actually happens from day one of the new timetable is another matter however....

The MK4 introduction is been pretty poor so far, they might as well have waited until May to split the timetable for the Manchester's every 2 hours!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.... In any case, even the limited Manchester service that has run with the MKIVs has both freed up stock (a god send with the 175 issues) and make a big improvement on availability of trains for training, and you wouldn't have got that without the split. Delaying the split would only have made things worse in the long term.

 

[Jez]

Should start to see them throughout the day at Shrewsbury on Cardiff - Holyhead services soon. They're diagrammed for most of these services from May. There should even be one stabled on Abbey Foregate every night. Whether that actually happens from day one of the new timetable is another matter however....


Hindsight is a wonderful thing.... In any case, even the limited Manchester service that has run with the MKIVs has both freed up stock (a god send with the 175 issues) and make a big improvement on availability of trains for training, and you wouldn't have got that without the split. Delaying the split would only have made things worse in the long term.

Yes that's true. But from a passenger point of view just seems pointless splitting them and losing connections most of the time at Cardiff when your just going from a Sprinter to another Sprinter.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The rate they are going i wouldn't be surprised if its 2025 before we get them on the Cambrian services in full!

The Greater Anglia replacement took from 2019-2023, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the same drag.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

The Greater Anglia replacement took from 2019-2023, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the same drag.

Not going to be the case. Completely different TOC with completely different circumstances.

 

[Jez]

Not going to be the case. Completely different TOC with completely different circumstances.

But the time its taken TFW to introduce a handful of services in North Wales/Liverpool etc it wouldnt surprise me if its well over a year before we see them fully rolled out.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Should start to see them throughout the day at Shrewsbury on Cardiff - Holyhead services soon. They're diagrammed for most of these services from May. There should even be one stabled on Abbey Foregate every night. Whether that actually happens from day one of the new timetable is another matter however....


Hindsight is a wonderful thing.... In any case, even the limited Manchester service that has run with the MKIVs has both freed up stock (a god send with the 175 issues) and make a big improvement on availability of trains for training, and you wouldn't have got that without the split. Delaying the split would only have made things worse in the long term.

Would they even fit in Shrewsbury Abbey Forgate Sidings?

 

[rich.davies]

With the Long distance ticket sale running at the moment, I've taken a chance on 1V91 on the 7.32am Wrexham to Cardiff on the 11th May. Fingers crossed ...

 

[Caaardiff]

But the time its taken TFW to introduce a handful of services in North Wales/Liverpool etc it wouldnt surprise me if its well over a year before we see them fully rolled out.

It'll always take longer at the start due to the train crew training and initial unit acceptance. Once the acceptance issues are ironed out the quality of those being delivered should be better and take less time to introduce. Also nearly all North wales/Chester train crew are trained and the rest of the network is happening fast with more units being made available to get the training accelerated.
Most of the maintenace depots are trained up now which also takes time at the start but is a smaller pool of people.

 

[craigybagel]

Would they even fit in Shrewsbury Abbey Forgate Sidings?

It would be on a diagram currently worked by a different type of DMU, so wouldn't require any extra space.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

It would be on a diagram currently worked by a different type of DMU, so wouldn't require any extra space.

I was going to say because I didn't think the Sidings could fit a whole length 67mk4 set in.

 

[craigybagel]

I was going to say because I didn't think the Sidings could fit a whole length 67mk4 set in.

Sorry I was talking about 197s, in response to another posters comments about them in this thread. There are no plans to stable MKIVs on Abbey Foregate, and I don't believe they're cleared anyway.

 

[JakeMurphy]

Anyone know what’s on 1W91? Didn’t expect it to be a loco as it’s been a unit all week.

 

[sd0733]

Anyone know what’s on 1W91? Didn’t expect it to be a loco as it’s been a unit all week.

Should be 67022 and HD06. First time out for a few weeks for that set as been waiting on wheel lathe availability.

A few days later than expected but back upto 3 diagrams today then 2 tomorrow, to balance sets it may not be the usual diagrams though, potentially be the same as last week with both sets off Canton, one on 1w11 and the other on 1w57.

 

[victormildrew]

Well another bad day for the MK4s, not signalling again or just clapped out engines, If TFW want to run more MK4s in the summer TT, they need to source some more reliable traction.

 

[Envoy]

Well another bad day for the MK4s, not signalling again or just clapped out engines, If TFW want to run more MK4s in the summer TT, they need to source some more reliable traction.

If this goes on, perhaps they will have to reconsider the decision to use Mark4’s with 67’s? If East Midlands Meridians were to go to Cross Country, perhaps some Voyagers will be spare?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Well another bad day for the MK4s, not signalling again or just clapped out engines, If TFW want to run more MK4s in the summer TT, they need to source some more reliable traction.

Well, from RTT, 1V33 was cancelled and 1V91 was started at Chester (presumably the set coming from Crewe).
But the northbounds and subsequent legs operated, if mostly running behind time.
Is that not fairly "normal" these days?

 

[GWVillager]

If this goes on, perhaps they will have to reconsider the decision to use Mark4’s with 67’s? If East Midlands Meridians were to go to Cross Country, perhaps some Voyagers will be spare?

They won’t get rid of the Mk4s they’ve just bought. I don’t want to get too far into the realm of speculation but I’m not sure there are many other options for locos.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They won’t get rid of the Mk4s they’ve just bought. I don’t want to get too far into the realm of speculation but I’m not sure there are many other options for locos.

The only contingency would be to retain 175s for the loco services that can't run, or use them elsewhere so that 197s can be cascaded to the loco services.
But that will cost money too.

 

[Thomas6187]

1V33 only got as far as the first signal out of Manchester Piccadilly this morning before coming to a stand. Limped back into the station about 30 minutes late

 

[victormildrew]

1V33 only got as far as the first signal out of Manchester Piccadilly this morning before coming to a stand. Limped back into the station about 30 minutes late

Even 1W96 Cardiff to Holyhead is starting to loose time.