First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

Right time for my little guess on allocation changes in September. I'm hoping that D2007 will be able to help.

I think that the 02 reg B7Ls will all go into reserve fleet. The W reg B7TLs will all, apart from 32001 and 32002 be withdrawn, with the ones in Bristol withdrawn due to the introduction of new vehicles on the UWE service.

The Streetlites from 18/18A will move to Weston and operate 3 - they state on both First and Travelwest that 3 is changing routes to allow bigger vehicles to be used - to which I think they're referring to Streetlites. Streetlites will then operate 7 and 3, with darts operating 5. The E200s will move out of Weston and head to Bath. Not sure what the E200s will be used on - can they be used on 6/7/8 maybe and displace some solos? Then maybe we'll see some E400s head from Manchester or Yorkshire to Weston to bulk up the number on the X routes. I think all the B7RLEs will leave Weston with 66726 moving to Wells temporarily whilst 66723 and 66724 are repainted into Mendip Xplorer livery. 66726 will then head to Bath. 66725, 66734 and the 55 reg B7s will head back to Bristol replacing B7Ls.

There are no Streetlites in Bath which can be used on U2 at the moment - the allocation is to 1 and the Maxs to Westbury stuff. In September I suspect though that 66992 and 66993 will be used on U2 together with Darts displaced from 38. I think early next year when the airport B7s go away to be refurbished, 66992 and 66993 might join them.

I'd forgotten about the Streetlites coming free from the 18s - Weston may be a home for them.

Of your predictions....

The W reg B7TLs are getting long in the tooth so a fair chance that all but the open toppers will go. The B7RLEs are a stop gap at Weston AFAIK so they may gravitate to Bristol with one for the extra 126 board at Wells. Don't know about a reserve fleet though for the B7Ls.

Not convinced that Weston will actually need more e400s though, and who's to say that FWoE might not lose some modern or mid life fleet elsewhere? No predictions but who's to say the e200s may head elsewhere? Or they stay for the A2 and 5 and that the late model Darts head elsewhere in the empire?

Perhaps BoS might fancy three of the e200s instead of the trio that still haven't escaped the gravitational pull of Doncaster As for homes in Bath for them, they might be ok for the 8 but think they may struggle on the 6/7 because of the casual abandonment of cars!

 

[Whiteway215]

Perhaps BoS might fancy three of the e200s instead of the trio that still haven't escaped the gravitational pull of Doncaster As for homes in Bath for them, they might be ok for the 8 but think they may struggle on the 6/7 because of the casual abandonment of cars!

My own thoughts but I do believe it would be quite entertaining on the 8 to get an E200 around The Oval on its way to Kingsway. I have seen an E200 work the 2 so that would take out two of the Solos.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

My own thoughts but I do believe it would be quite entertaining on the 8 to get an E200 around The Oval on its way to Kingsway. I have seen an E200 work the 2 so that would take out two of the Solos.

Is it any worse than Ham Lane in Paulton though?

 

[carlberry]

Well all I heard was that residents didn't like the deckers going past.

Most (none bus using) residents don't like buses of any kind going past! Stopping deckers is a first step.

Back in the mists of time when the local MAP schemes were introducing lots of deckers onto single deck routes the company got lots of complaints including groups of residents stringing flags across the road or parking cars badly so buses couldnt get past (for younger viewers this used to be unusual, not just expected!).

There was an incident at about the same time when a resident somewhere in east Bristol complained that a bus crew had spent the layover period watching them in a 'recreational activity' from the top of a decker, which they only realised after they'd finished. Some people need to buy curtains!

 

[Whiteway215]

Is it any worse than Ham Lane in Paulton though?

No probably not!

 

[THarris123]

My own thoughts but I do believe it would be quite entertaining on the 8 to get an E200 around The Oval on its way to Kingsway. I have seen an E200 work the 2 so that would take out two of the Solos.

Forgot about 2. Most likely they'll go on there if they do move from Weston.

8 is interworked with 6 and 7 now so if they can't fit on 6/7, then they won't be on 8.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Forgot about 2. Most likely they'll go on there if they do move from Weston.

8 is interworked with 6 and 7 now so if they can't fit on 6/7, then they won't be on 8.

To think that when I first visited the area, the area was teeming with minibuses and we wonder if any will survive with First!

 

[D2007wsm]

I'd forgotten about the Streetlites coming free from the 18s - Weston may be a home for them.

Of your predictions....

The W reg B7TLs are getting long in the tooth so a fair chance that all but the open toppers will go. The B7RLEs are a stop gap at Weston AFAIK so they may gravitate to Bristol with one for the extra 126 board at Wells. Don't know about a reserve fleet though for the B7Ls.

Not convinced that Weston will actually need more e400s though, and who's to say that FWoE might not lose some modern or mid life fleet elsewhere? No predictions but who's to say the e200s may head elsewhere? Or they stay for the A2 and 5 and that the late model Darts head elsewhere in the empire?

Perhaps BoS might fancy three of the e200s instead of the trio that still haven't escaped the gravitational pull of Doncaster As for homes in Bath for them, they might be ok for the 8 but think they may struggle on the 6/7 because of the casual abandonment of cars!

It has been confirmed that extra vehicles are being put onto The X1 etc. circuit so deckers will be needed for that as well as to see off the 2 B7 Geminis.

 

[D2007wsm]

Right time for my little guess on allocation changes in September. I'm hoping that D2007 will be able to help.

I think that the 02 reg B7Ls will all go into reserve fleet. The W reg B7TLs will all, apart from 32001 and 32002 be withdrawn, with the ones in Bristol withdrawn due to the introduction of new vehicles on the UWE service.

The Streetlites from 18/18A will move to Weston and operate 3 - they state on both First and Travelwest that 3 is changing routes to allow bigger vehicles to be used - to which I think they're referring to Streetlites. Streetlites will then operate 7 and 3, with darts operating 5. The E200s will move out of Weston and head to Bath. Not sure what the E200s will be used on - can they be used on 6/7/8 maybe and displace some solos? Then maybe we'll see some E400s head from Manchester or Yorkshire to Weston to bulk up the number on the X routes. I think all the B7RLEs will leave Weston with 66726 moving to Wells temporarily whilst 66723 and 66724 are repainted into Mendip Xplorer livery. 66726 will then head to Bath. 66725, 66734 and the 55 reg B7s will head back to Bristol replacing B7Ls.

There are no Streetlites in Bath which can be used on U2 at the moment - the allocation is to 1 and the Maxs to Westbury stuff. In September I suspect though that 66992 and 66993 will be used on U2 together with Darts displaced from 38. I think early next year when the airport B7s go away to be refurbished, 66992 and 66993 might join them.

Only RUMOURS are circulating on what is going where, the only confirmed for Weston is there is 2 new E200MMCs for the A3.

I can see some of the old E200s staying for the 4s and A2s. Darts currently go round West Wick but it is a bit tight and it can get a bit tight in Uphill village. Short E200s are the perfect size for these services.

Streetlites are a good idea for 3s as it would allow a common pool to be used for both 3s and 7s. Streetlites are allready seen on 3s, but it is the West Wick and Ellenborough Park/Wbitexross road sections which are tight with parked cars. I would have though the two current A3 Streetlites will be Excelled for country work, alongside the remaining Express Yourself Streetlites, allowing the Urban Streetlites to stay on town work.

 

[spw24]

In Lawrence Hill tonight 32008 in all over pink same as the streetlites and 32084 now has a purple front ex red.

 

[vicbury]

In Lawrence Hill tonight 32008 in all over pink same as the streetlites and 32084 now has a purple front ex red.

Good to see First are gearing up to further push mticketing. It really does speed up boarding although that could get even quicker if the developers made an app that launched at a reasonable speed!

Looking forward to seeing more of the mticket livery as it is one of my favourites at the moment. I'm a fan of straight lines and angles so I'm not keen on some more of the recent ones such as Excel.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In Lawrence Hill tonight 32008 in all over pink same as the streetlites and 32084 now has a purple front ex red.

Hmmm - perhaps it was that was 32008 that I saw in Avonmouth paintshop - specsavers???

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It has been confirmed that extra vehicles are being put onto The X1 etc. circuit so deckers will be needed for that as well as to see off the 2 B7 Geminis.

What is the PVR of X1-X7? There are 30 e400s (excl the ser 50 examples).

Whatever is the outcome, it's going to be an interesting few months as new vehicles arrive, service changes take place (with the 18 and 77) etc!

Back on the FHD fleet, Simon Nicholas (who is generally well informed) has said that the 2002 Tridents are there to stay and rumours of fleet arrivals circulating are simply that. FHD has obviously benefitted from a lot of single deck investment with a creditable fleet profile but the limited decker fleet is quite mature; appreciate that a lot is on contract and schools work but aside from a few e400s on P&R and the 2007/8 deckers, it is pretty venerable.

There again, you have Bridport area schools coming up with a fleet required for a few hours a day over x weeks a year....perhaps Tridents aren't the biggest surprise.

 

[D2007wsm]

What is the PVR of X1-X7? There are 30 e400s (excl the ser 50 examples).

Whatever is the outcome, it's going to be an interesting few months as new vehicles arrive, service changes take place (with the 18 and 77) etc!

Back on the FHD fleet, Simon Nicholas (who is generally well informed) has said that the 2002 Tridents are there to stay and rumours of fleet arrivals circulating are simply that. FHD has obviously benefitted from a lot of single deck investment with a creditable fleet profile but the limited decker fleet is quite mature; appreciate that a lot is on contract and schools work but aside from a few e400s on P&R and the 2007/8 deckers, it is pretty venerable.

There again, you have Bridport area schools coming up with a fleet required for a few hours a day over x weeks a year....perhaps Tridents aren't the biggest surprise.

Currently:

X1/X2/X3/X3A/X4 = 19
X5 = 4
X6/X7/X9 = 6 (Not including workings which include an X8 of which there are 2)

That works out to 29 uses, not including those of for maintenance or repainting. With such a high intensity services, I could see a couple being sourced to act as spares.

Extra layover time is being added on each end in particular the Weston's and Portishead's to allow a margin for recovery should they be late.

+ up to 5, 2 should be 32001/32002 on service 20 should anything be wrong with the W reg B7s. In an ideal world, E400s will be used to replace these apart from the Open Tops at some point.

 

[THarris123]

In Lawrence Hill tonight 32008 in all over pink same as the streetlites and 32084 now has a purple front ex red.

Are we sure 32008 is staying with First and hasn't been painted for a new buyer?

 

[Martin2012]

The 1700 journey on the 46 from Bristol to Yate was once again full and standing last night. I really think First need to look seriously at putting deckers on this journey or at the very least putting in an extra journey with a single decker.

I do also think there needs to be another, more quicker service operating to Yate at that time.

 

[D2007wsm]

A pink Streetlites is back in Weston and out on service today. Not sure which one it is though.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Currently:

X1/X2/X3/X3A/X4 = 19
X5 = 4
X6/X7/X9 = 6 (Not including workings which include an X8 of which there are 2)

That works out to 29 uses, not including those of for maintenance or repainting. With such a high intensity services, I could see a couple being sourced to act as spares.

Extra layover time is being added on each end in particular the Weston's and Portishead's to allow a margin for recovery should they be late.

+ up to 5, 2 should be 32001/32002 on service 20 should anything be wrong with the W reg B7s. In an ideal world, E400s will be used to replace these apart from the Open Tops at some point.

If, as you say, some Streetlites will be Excelled then wouldn't that also be tipped into the pot so 30 e400s and a select number of Streetlites would be allocated to Excel routes?

 

[baza585]

What is the PVR of X1-X7? There are 30 e400s (excl the ser 50 examples).

Whatever is the outcome, it's going to be an interesting few months as new vehicles arrive, service changes take place (with the 18 and 77) etc!

Back on the FHD fleet, Simon Nicholas (who is generally well informed) has said that the 2002 Tridents are there to stay and rumours of fleet arrivals circulating are simply that. FHD has obviously benefitted from a lot of single deck investment with a creditable fleet profile but the limited decker fleet is quite mature; appreciate that a lot is on contract and schools work but aside from a few e400s on P&R and the 2007/8 deckers, it is pretty venerable.

There again, you have Bridport area schools coming up with a fleet required for a few hours a day over x weeks a year....perhaps Tridents aren't the biggest surprise.

Yep, Simon's comment ruined my day!

You are right. FHD's decker fleet is elderly (other than the 3 P&R E400s everything else is 9 years old or older). Replacements for the Hampshire depots will be required when the Southampton LEZ kicks in (?2019).

The deckers in Dorset have a very hard life, up hill and down dale and much high sped running. The Scanias are 2004, very high mileage and as befits teenagers, are temperamental. Ideal for schools in Dorset/Brock but not much else. Even the frontline Jurassic B9TLs are 2008/9 and starting to show their age, with various mid life crises.

The Jurassic routes need deckers in the summer; only certain boards (schools and the post 0930 peak) need them in the winter. Haven't worked the winter PVR out yet but it is down from the summer. The Portlands really need deckers in summer, but can cope with Streetlites in Winter provided the frequency isn't cut too much (this winter's frequency is the lowest I can remeber..............)

So, I fear you are right, the 02 Tridents plus any spare Jurassic deckers on the Dorset schools. Hope they will cope, but not confident!

As to Brock schools, not sure. Southampton's PVR will be up by about 8 so more buses will be required. Other than the "events fleet" T reg. ex London Tridents (couple of not bad ones but the rest are absolute sheds), nothing else with two decks is available.

Logic would suggest newish B9s into Weymouth for the Jurassics, with the 2008 B9s onto Portlands with say a 15 minute frequency, which helps with Weymouth's never-ending driver shortage. Scanias onto schools either in Dorset or Brock.

As for Hampshire, the 4 existing 07 reg B7TLs, plus some of the 55 reg. EL bodied Tridents from Hoeford will just about cover Brock, with Streetlites from weymouth back-filling in Hampshire. Hoeford need deckers for Pompey uni plus schools/colleges; they will just have to cope (they always do..........).

Frustrating to see W reg. B7TLs being DDAd and sold (they would be OK for Dorset schools), whilst FHD saddled with the Trident sheds for 3 more years, assuming they haven't all fallen apart/self-combusted by then.

 

[Private Baxter]

A pink Streetlites is back in Weston and out on service today. Not sure which one it is though.

Weston currently have eleven streetlites - six 14 reg ones and five 64 reg ones, but I strongly agree with whoever said the six remaining streetlites that currently work the 18 will also head over to Weston once that service ceases, whereby they would work town services, (as intended), the A3, untill new buses arrive for that, and the X9. And yes I think a selection will be 'excelled'. Quick question though - can't remember if I have actually asked this or if it has been answered, but how does the X9 work? Is it interworked with X6/X7 or does it run independently?

 

[stait.john]

The Streetlites from the 18 are going to Weston, the 72 will become all B7RLE operated (presumably with buses sourced from Weston) 39191/2 move to LH For the 48a, and all B7Ls leave Bristol. I would imagine A2/W5 would keep the little E200s, anything else is too big ideally.
Also out of the 3 pink Streetlites, one will return to Weston (47556 on the 7 today in plain pink still) one to Bath and one to Hengrove presumably once the Mtickets vinyls are applied.
That's all I know so far!
John

 

[stait.john]

X9 generally works off X6/X7 boards. Extra X7 running time at the Weston end from September too.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yep, Simon's comment ruined my day!

You are right. FHD's decker fleet is elderly (other than the 3 P&R E400s everything else is 9 years old or older). Replacements for the Hampshire depots will be required when the Southampton LEZ kicks in (?2019).

The deckers in Dorset have a very hard life, up hill and down dale and much high sped running. The Scanias are 2004, very high mileage and as befits teenagers, are temperamental. Ideal for schools in Dorset/Brock but not much else. Even the frontline Jurassic B9TLs are 2008/9 and starting to show their age, with various mid life crises.

The Jurassic routes need deckers in the summer; only certain boards (schools and the post 0930 peak) need them in the winter. Haven't worked the winter PVR out yet but it is down from the summer. The Portlands really need deckers in summer, but can cope with Streetlites in Winter provided the frequency isn't cut too much (this winter's frequency is the lowest I can remeber..............)

So, I fear you are right, the 02 Tridents plus any spare Jurassic deckers on the Dorset schools. Hope they will cope, but not confident!

As to Brock schools, not sure. Southampton's PVR will be up by about 8 so more buses will be required. Other than the "events fleet" T reg. ex London Tridents (couple of not bad ones but the rest are absolute sheds), nothing else with two decks is available.

Logic would suggest newish B9s into Weymouth for the Jurassics, with the 2008 B9s onto Portlands with say a 15 minute frequency, which helps with Weymouth's never-ending driver shortage. Scanias onto schools either in Dorset or Brock.

As for Hampshire, the 4 existing 07 reg B7TLs, plus some of the 55 reg. EL bodied Tridents from Hoeford will just about cover Brock, with Streetlites from weymouth back-filling in Hampshire. Hoeford need deckers for Pompey uni plus schools/colleges; they will just have to cope (they always do..........).

Frustrating to see W reg. B7TLs being DDAd and sold (they would be OK for Dorset schools), whilst FHD saddled with the Trident sheds for 3 more years, assuming they haven't all fallen apart/self-combusted by then.

It is a tricky one. For Dorset schools, it is difficult to argue to resuscitate the B7s when there are Tridents (as fragile as they may be) that need to be written down and when they are only out for a few hours a day, 5 days a week.

Brock College is perhaps a different issue as the journey length is longer and there has been a commitment to wifi/USBs etc. I was thinking the Omnidekkas for that but perhaps they will use the 2007 B7/2005 Tridents?

The X51 and X53 are punishing services but whilst they attract good loadings, they are full of pensioners and highly seasonal esp. the X53. How much of an upgrade they can stand financially, I don't know; not been on one of the B9s for a while so don't know how they're standing up but must be feeling the strain now.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Streetlites from the 18 are going to Weston, the 72 will become all B7RLE operated (presumably with buses sourced from Weston) 39191/2 move to LH For the 48a, and all B7Ls leave Bristol. I would imagine A2/W5 would keep the little E200s, anything else is too big ideally.
Also out of the 3 pink Streetlites, one will return to Weston (47556 on the 7 today in plain pink still) one to Bath and one to Hengrove presumably once the Mtickets vinyls are applied.
That's all I know so far!
John

Thanks for the info.

I think we all expected the B7Ls to go with many having gone to West Yorkshire; wonder if these will join them?

39191/2 going onto the 48A is also expected; I never thought there was any expectation of them going onto the U1 (16) and it would be easier to move the depot equipment than the stuff at UWE.

Given that the 72 has been B7L operated recently and that B7RLEs will come spare at Weston, that is also fairly sensible.

 

[Private Baxter]

The Streetlites from the 18 are going to Weston, the 72 will become all B7RLE operated (presumably with buses sourced from Weston) 39191/2 move to LH For the 48a, and all B7Ls leave Bristol. I would imagine A2/W5 would keep the little E200s, anything else is too big ideally.
Also out of the 3 pink Streetlites, one will return to Weston (47556 on the 7 today in plain pink still) one to Bath and one to Hengrove presumably once the Mtickets vinyls are applied.
That's all I know so far!
John

Thanks indeed. That does all make a fair amount of sense, and the B7RLEs would be good for 72. (Hengrove already have 66935). Weston have six, so presumably one or two will also go to Wells.
Good move for 39191/2, I had assumed they would just be phased in to the 75/76 pool but this, as GW says makes more sense.
Plus I'm sure the loss of the remaining B7Ls will be welcome among many on here!

 

[Whiteway215]

In Bath today. 47547 and a Solo on Wessex Water service, 42906 on X39 (they get everywhere) Overheard conversation between two drivers (one of whom normally works Uni services) "If Wessex get kicked off Bath Uni we (First) will never cope with the passenger numbers." There might be some truth in that come late September. Interesting thought, yesterday we were discussing putting singles on U2 instead of deckers!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I think we all expected the B7Ls to go with many having gone to West Yorkshire; wonder if these will join them?

If they do, then they'll end up in the depots at either...

- Eastwood (Todmorden) [can only take single decks because of the low roof.]
- Skircoat Road (Halifax)
- Old Fieldhouse Lane (Huddersfield)
- Bowling Back Lane (Bradford)
- Bramley (Leeds)
- Hunslet (Leeds)

... should any more transfers happen. Leeds got a fair amount before so its possible that this time round Halifax or even Bradford may end up with them should they transfer to West Yorkshire.

 

[wiltshirebloke]

In Bath today. 47547 and a Solo on Wessex Water service, 42906 on X39 (they get everywhere) Overheard conversation between two drivers (one of whom normally works Uni services) "If Wessex get kicked off Bath Uni we (First) will never cope with the passenger numbers." There might be some truth in that come late September. Interesting thought, yesterday we were discussing putting singles on U2 instead of deckers!

Might have been a discussion around the press release from First today :

All commercial bus services to and from the University of Bath’s Claverton Down campus will be provided by First Bus from this September.

 

[Blackpudding]

If they do, then they'll end up in the depots at either...

- Eastwood (Todmorden) [can only take single decks because of the low roof.]
- Skircoat Road (Halifax)
- Old Fieldhouse Lane (Huddersfield)
- Bowling Back Lane (Bradford)
- Bramley (Leeds)
- Hunslet (Leeds)

... should any more transfers happen. Leeds got a fair amount before so its possible that this time round Halifax or even Bradford may end up with them should they transfer to West Yorkshire.

Just for the record NS, the roof has been taken off Tod.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If they do, then they'll end up in the depots at either...

- Eastwood (Todmorden) [can only take single decks because of the low roof.]
- Skircoat Road (Halifax)
- Old Fieldhouse Lane (Huddersfield)
- Bowling Back Lane (Bradford)
- Bramley (Leeds)
- Hunslet (Leeds)

... should any more transfers happen. Leeds got a fair amount before so its possible that this time round Halifax or even Bradford may end up with them should they transfer to West Yorkshire.

As has been mentioned, the roof and the much of the walls were removed at Millwood (Tod) so it now is a secure compound. Oddly, the six Somerset B7Ls went to Bradford, whereas the refugees from FWoE went to Leeds where I bumped into 60912 a few months ago in Hunslet town centre.

However, where the remaining B7Ls end up, we shall have to see. In a way, I'll miss them (though not the seats). Was quite fun barrelling along the A38 from Taunton to Bridgwater and they have been a feature of the area for nearly 15 years whether on the Portway P&R, dedicated routes (W7, 21 or 28), or working on various country or city routes.