Go North East

[Cesarcollie]

Well we’re hours away from the strike and with the added bonus of the rail strike, huge swathes of Tyneside, Northumberland and County Durham are left with no public transport at all.

GNE have confirmed only school buses will operate next week (where possible) but a lot of the most vulnerable and elderly will basically be forced back into lockdown thanks to the sheer incompetence of GNE enthusiast led management team

‘sheer incompetence of GNE enthusiast led management team’……!! Evidence? What would you do better? Do you have much experience in industrial relations and/or running a multi million pounds turnover company?

 

[jkkne]

‘sheer incompetence of GNE enthusiast led management team’……!! Evidence? What would you do better? Do you have much experience in industrial relations and/or running a multi million pounds turnover company?

A loss making company…Where does one start with GNE. It’s a basket case and it has been even since Gilbert was in charge.

Constant rebranding - one dreads to think how much they wasted on Best Impressions identikit paint jobs, an entirely unstable route network that is rejigged every few months, taking on commercial work in north Tyneside it didn’t have the drivers for thus entirely destabilising its one reliable depot at Percy Main and adding to the hundreds of journey cancellations each day, a total breakdown in colleague relations and not just the driving team, a fleet that is creaking at the seams, buses left on the roadside after breaking down, dragging entirely unsuitable ex London buses tarted up and failing consistently, slashing the service delivery centre, constant fare rises, slashing its customer service numbers, constant PR gaffes from Ben and that’s just for starters

Even Roger French doesn’t attempt to defend them and he’d defend anything Go Ahead related

I doubt anyone could do any worse,

 

[markymark2000]

Have listened to Unite the strike is going to kill off some depots. They are comparing wages in different parts of the country.

That's typical Unite. They were doing the same with Stagecoach and First in Manchester. They have no care for the companies being in business in a few years, that doesn't give them good press. All they care about is short term wage rises because every big firm can clearly afford it, they don't see or care for the bigger cycle of decline that follows the pay rises that the union so desires.

I doubt anyone could do any worse,

*Arriva walks in* 'You called'

 

[jkkne]

*Arriva walks in* 'You called'

As awful as Arriva are, they’re still better than GNE up here which is some going. Taking on the unprofitable routes arriva ditched when they closed their Newcastle depot is part of GNEs issues.

 

[Megafuss]

As awful as Arriva are, they’re still better than GNE up here which is some going. Taking on the unprofitable routes arriva ditched when they closed their Newcastle depot is part of GNEs issues.

Arriva shut a perfectly good depot for money and made the 5X group of services unviable by running them from an outstation. What a business!! Giving Percy Main extra work was precisely the right thing to do, if you actually know what you are talking about...

 

[Lynford1976]

My understanding is that drivers are striking after turning down a 9.5% pay rise! People in other industries would happily take that at the moment...

 

[Geordie driver]

My understanding is that drivers are striking after turning down a 9.5% pay rise! People in other industries would happily take that at the moment...

Your understanding is wrong.

It's the conditions being altered for the worse to pay for this " rise".

A company that struggles to recruit and retain drivers now.

The solution?

Make things even worse.

100% support from me for my sisters and brothers at GNE.

 

[Ze Random One]

My understanding is that drivers are striking after turning down a 9.5% pay rise! People in other industries would happily take that at the moment...

My understanding is that that 9.5% has "harmonisation" strings attached (like removing paid rest breaks and allowances for extra travel to work time for those who were employrd to now-closed depots for some staff) meaning that for some this may be a per hour worked reduction in pay.
It's also worth noting that other local bus companies offered higher increases recently.

 

[M803UYA]

Your understanding is wrong.

It's the conditions being altered for the worse to pay for this " rise".

A company that struggles to recruit and retain drivers now.

The solution?

Make things even worse.

100% support from me for my sisters and brothers at GNE.

9.5% is a pay cut when inflation is higher than that. Perhaps if we had a government that, um, governed then inflation would be under control. And in any event, they can find the time to issue new money to give to their mates? So they can pay up and fix this situation. For all the guff about drivers being 'covid heroes' the companies expect claps to pay the bills. Yeah I'd stand my ground too.

If the company wanted to fix the dispute, they'd cough up. I've worked for large operators before and when they wanted a dispute fixed the instruction was 'pay them, don't care about the cost, just stop them walking out'

Company and the industry should ask why people don't want to do the job. They'll be surprised to learn it might not be about money - but something about which they can do a lot. Their attitude towards their employees. That change doesn't cost money, rather a personality transplant.

 

[Snex]

Arriva shut a perfectly good depot for money and made the 5X group of services unviable by running them from an outstation. What a business!! Giving Percy Main extra work was precisely the right thing to do, if you actually know what you are talking about...

Arriva sold the Jesmond depot years ago and were just leasing it on a long term basis. The long term plan was to build a new depot at Walkergate but with Covid etc and PVR reductions elsewhere it opened space at Blyth and Ashington to take on more services there instead.

In the end, it was never economically viable to build a whole new depot to just take on the 5x services and for whatever reason the planned extension at Ashington (2nd plan) didn't happen either.

They also didn't give anyone any work, GNE chose to take on the 352/353/354/355 commercially. The 335/351/359 are Nexus contracts and I'd be surprised if half of the former exist soon considering they duplicate the new Stagecoach 37 and 38 extensions which are actually running and are useable.

This is no different to the GoNorthEast 25, 28, 29 and 71 which suddenly all got dropped around the Chester closure.

 

[Geordie driver]

Company and the industry should ask why people don't want to do the job. They'll be surprised to learn it might not be about money - but something about which they can do a lot. Their attitude towards their employees. That change doesn't cost money, rather a personality transplant.

Indeed, there is a deep malaise running from top to bottom in the industry management.

 

[Kuyoyo]

Arriva shut a perfectly good depot for money and made the 5X group of services unviable by running them from an outstation. What a business!! Giving Percy Main extra work was precisely the right thing to do, if you actually know what you are talking about...

Jesmond was already earmarked for closure before Covid - the site was sold years ago for redevelopment.
Percy Main didn’t want any extra work 2 they’d already taken enough on with the merged 1/97 due to Riverside’s never-ending shortages.

 

[MotCO]

Your understanding is wrong.

It's the conditions being altered for the worse to pay for this " rise".

A company that struggles to recruit and retain drivers now.

The solution?

Make things even worse.

100% support from me for my sisters and brothers at GNE.

Serious question: If you were running GNE, what would be your solution? Award a 9.5% pay rise with no strings attached, or maybe a higher rise to cover the effect of inflation?

How would this be paid for? Commercial routes would have a fare increase or reduced service, which will lead to fewer passengers, leading to fewer GNE drivers and staff being needed. Supported routes - could the local authority stump up more funds? Unlikely, and this would lead to higher Council Tax, putting pressure on everyone. Which could mean less discretionary travel, again leading to fewer passengers etc etc.

'Strings attached' used to be called 'efficiency savings'; there may well be some restrictive practices which could be abandoned to further efficiency without affecting safety, which could help finance pay rises. There is no excuse for poor management or industrial relations, but these need to be worked at by both sides and take a long time to mature (and a short time to disappear).

The real panacea is to grow the industry. Get more bums on seats, provide relable services at the times people want etc. However, much of this is outside GNE's control (such as previous passengers now wfh) so this won't happen without massive investment. And why would GNE invest, if the staff are on strike?

My fear is that there is no solution, other than the gradual demise of the company and the loss of jobs, only some of which may be created by other operators.

 

[Geordie driver]

Serious question: If you were running GNE, what would be your solution? Award a 9.5% pay rise with no strings attached, or maybe a higher rise to cover the effect of inflation?

How would this be paid for? Commercial routes would have a fare increase or reduced service, which will lead to fewer passengers, leading to fewer GNE drivers and staff being needed. Supported routes - could the local authority stump up more funds? Unlikely, and this would lead to higher Council Tax, putting pressure on everyone. Which could mean less discretionary travel, again leading to fewer passengers etc etc.

'Strings attached' used to be called 'efficiency savings'; there may well be some restrictive practices which could be abandoned to further efficiency without affecting safety, which could help finance pay rises. There is no excuse for poor management or industrial relations, but these need to be worked at by both sides and take a long time to mature (and a short time to disappear).

The real panacea is to grow the industry. Get more bums on seats, provide relable services at the times people want etc. However, much of this is outside GNE's control (such as previous passengers now wfh) so this won't happen without massive investment. And why would GNE invest, if the staff are on strike?

My fear is that there is no solution, other than the gradual demise of the company and the loss of jobs, only some of which may be created by other operators.

I wouldn't be a manager, I wouldn't want the job.

Drivers drive, managers manage.

There is never enough money to pay the staff well, there is always a reason to treat them badly. Always a reason to cut corners.

This is how they have managed the industry, into decades of gradual decline.

Treating their staff like human beings would be a start, the industry is renowned for treating it's drivers badly.

If I wanted to recruit and retain drivers ( and they haven't got enough drivers now), I wouldn't make conditions even worse then expect that to fix things.

 

[MotCO]

I wouldn't be a manager, I wouldn't want the job.

Drivers drive, managers manage.

There is never enough money to pay the staff well, there is always a reason to treat them badly. Always a reason to cut corners.

This is how they have managed the industry, into decades of gradual decline.

Treating their staff like human beings would be a start, the industry is renowned for treating it's drivers badly.

If I wanted to recruit and retain drivers ( and they haven't got enough drivers now), I wouldn't make conditions even worse then expect that to fix things.

Which suggests that there is no answer, only intransigence on both sides. Can't see it ending well.

 

[M803UYA]

Serious question: If you were running GNE, what would be your solution? Award a 9.5% pay rise with no strings attached, or maybe a higher rise to cover the effect of inflation?

'Strings attached' used to be called 'efficiency savings'; there may well be some restrictive practices which could be abandoned to further efficiency without affecting safety, which could help finance pay rises. There is no excuse for poor management or industrial relations, but these need to be worked at by both sides and take a long time to mature (and a short time to disappear).

I would assume there were some restrictive practices there, and that is precisely what negotiation is all about. When the strike is over, the management are still having to work with the union. It's just that they'll be even less receptive to talking!

You can always find some sort of compromise and negotiate with people, it's a matter of finding out what they want. Once you acquire a reputation for being 'straight' it goes some way. Trust will take a long time to build up and I always took pride in having that when I dealt with trades unions.

So all I can take from this strike is that the higher ups in Go Ahead are happy to have drivers on a picket line and have no revenue coming in from their bus operations.

 

[Snex]

Serious question: If you were running GNE, what would be your solution? Award a 9.5% pay rise with no strings attached, or maybe a higher rise to cover the effect of inflation?

How would this be paid for? Commercial routes would have a fare increase or reduced service, which will lead to fewer passengers, leading to fewer GNE drivers and staff being needed. Supported routes - could the local authority stump up more funds? Unlikely, and this would lead to higher Council Tax, putting pressure on everyone. Which could mean less discretionary travel, again leading to fewer passengers etc etc.

'Strings attached' used to be called 'efficiency savings'; there may well be some restrictive practices which could be abandoned to further efficiency without affecting safety, which could help finance pay rises. There is no excuse for poor management or industrial relations, but these need to be worked at by both sides and take a long time to mature (and a short time to disappear).

The real panacea is to grow the industry. Get more bums on seats, provide relable services at the times people want etc. However, much of this is outside GNE's control (such as previous passengers now wfh) so this won't happen without massive investment. And why would GNE invest, if the staff are on strike?

My fear is that there is no solution, other than the gradual demise of the company and the loss of jobs, only some of which may be created by other operators.

Go North East has had cancellations for the best part of 3 years now. If I was a passenger who actually relied on a bus to get to work and it might or might not turn up then I'd be using a car. That should be top priority right now, if it means paying more to your drivers then so be it. Without any staff you can't provide a service and will continue to lose customers. Taking terms away and offering a below inflation wage increase is the polar opposite and is going to make matters worse.

Not to mention there are serious issues with reliability of the fleet with buses ending up at the side of the road daily lately, with the cuts noticeable on the frontline. Who knows what's going on behind the scenes?

Also, the previous management, who thought it was a good idea to cut the fares so they were stupidly cheap to try and grow numbers, need a medal for complete stupidity. It's easy to decrease fares, but when you're losing money it's never popular to reverse it, especially when it completely fails and the numbers don't grow because of the problems above. It's no wonder Gilbert fled before he was given the boot.

 

[MotCO]

Also, the previous management, who thought it was a good idea to cut the fares so they were stupidly cheap to try and grow numbers, need a medal for complete stupidity. It's easy to decrease fares, but when you're losing money it's never popular to reverse it, especially when it completely fails and the numbers don't grow because of the problems above. It's no wonder Gilbert fled before he was given the boot.

I'm not native to the area, but had understood GNE fares where higher than others in the area. If that is right, did Gilbjert change this, and is this what has lead to a reduction in investment etc?

 

[Snex]

I'm not native to the area, but had understood GNE fares where higher than others in the area. If that is right, did Gilbjert change this, and is this what has lead to a reduction in investment etc?

I'd say they were about comparative to Arriva, who run similar routes to them. Some of the new fares were just borderline crazy. You had fares such as a return from Bishop Auckland to Chester Le Street which is roughly 15 mile each way for £3.80. It was initially just a summer promotion though, which then turned permanent, as when you reduce things, it's not too easy to go back up.

The biggest problem was the Chester Le Street closure though, which alienated a lot of drivers and that work being sent to other depots without the drivers, who all retired / quit. Riverside has been affected by it ever since pretty much and staff morale has been rock bottom as a result.

It's pretty much ended up with a scenario where fares are too cheap, there's not enough drivers thus services were being cancelled left right and centre and as a result passenger numbers didn't grow and they're leaking money like a sieve.

Nigel Featham being in charge, who's staff relations are rather patchy as an understatement doesn't help either, who I must say is very quiet while this is all going but it's pretty much obvious who's pulling the strings as it's just a repeat of GoNorthWest and Arriva Durham.

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-...ebutting-the-claims-of-arriva-buses-in-durham - Arriva Durham's strike 4 years ago.

 

[Andyh82]

Didn’t GNE make a big loss last year, so increasing wages will surely result in a bigger loss?

The union keeps mentioning the profits of Go Ahead overall, so they presumably expect Go Ahead to take profits from Oxford, Brighton etc to subsidise the North East?

The fact they just moved GNE under Nigel Feltham was a bit odd as he’s probably got enough on with Go North West and the Bee Network introduction. It’s almost now like GNE doesn’t actually have a MD and is being run by the lower level of management.

 

[Simon75]

Didn't Go North East build a new depot a few years back ?
What was the reason behind that.
Also has things changed since Go Ahead now owned by Australian/Spanish companies?

 

[jkkne]

Arriva shut a perfectly good depot for money and made the 5X group of services unviable by running them from an outstation. What a business!! Giving Percy Main extra work was precisely the right thing to do, if you actually know what you are talking about...

Do you suffer their incompetence every day?

GNE took on loss making routes in north Tyneside. Tweaked them with debatable route changes. They didn’t have enough drivers so now have agency drivers covering those routes. Their most reliable depot, which was Percy Main, is now posting dozens of cancellations each day as they cancel services due to lack of drivers. They’re stranding current passengers to take the risk of new contracts, the new routes are barely on time and constantly regulated and cancelled.

So actually, if you knew what you were taking about, you’d know it’s been a disaster. But hey…that’s GNE under the likes of ben Maxfield, Dan Graham and Featham, incompetence personified

 

[rg177]

I'm not native to the area, but had understood GNE fares where higher than others in the area. If that is right, did Gilbjert change this, and is this what has lead to a reduction in investment etc?

I live on the Coast Road corridor and this is what happened. GNE fares were running off ahead of Arriva to the point where a single on Arriva was £2.20 and GNE was £3.20.

Under Gilbert that went down to £1.70, though it then went up to £2 after about six months, then £2.30 pre-cap.

That said - some Stagecoach fares were really silly pre-cap for the distance involved. Benwell to Grainger Street was £2.70 for what was basically a 15-minute amble. Meanwhile that £2.30 on GNE would get you from Newcastle to Blyth.

Back to the topic of strikes - my local stops were exceptionally busy this afternoon. It looked like the combination of Matchday traffic and GNE strike had wrecked the remaining Arriva 306/308 - you had three 306s and two 308s all chasing each other down the Coast Road out of town circa 17:30.

 

[Snex]

I live on the Coast Road corridor and this is what happened. GNE fares were running off ahead of Arriva to the point where a single on Arriva was £2.20 and GNE was £3.20.

In fairness, the fares on the Coast Road have always been cheaper than elsewhere. Go away from the Coast Road and Arriva's fares are much the same. It's £4.50 for a single from Seghill to Newcastle or £5.40 from Bedlington to Newcastle, ignoring the £2 fares.

Both those are busy flows aswell. During the GNE summer promotion, it was £1.70 across the whole of Sunderland. Nice from a passenger point of view but it's a bit too cheap imo.

 

[Andyh82]

Didn't Go North Eadt build a new depot a few years back ?
What was the reason behind that.

I presume you mean Consett depot which opened in 2019, so obviously before COVID, before the war in Ukraine, cost of living crisis, people working from home X numbers of days per week etc.

It replaced Stanley depot which was a very old facility.

 

[Geordie driver]

I have been told, and this is from a driver at GNE, that the company wants drivers to do their first use checks in their own time, unpaid. I find this hard to believe.

If this is true, small wonder they are striking.

 

[M803UYA]

I have been told, and this is from a driver at GNE, that the company wants drivers to do their first use checks in their own time, unpaid. I find this hard to believe.

If this is true, small wonder they are striking.

That's an interesting idea I've never heard of before. I can see why the union would have an issue with this idea.

An easier solution would be to employ some sort of yard supervisor to check the vehicles in the depot prior to their leaving.

The problem with the mentality of the large modern bus operator of 'if you don't like it, the door's over there' is what happens when enough drivers take the company's instruction and walk through said door and find other work.

 

[markymark2000]

If GNE are so short, why haven't they gone back to asking A Line and other friends to help them out? Surely you lose less money having another operator cover work than you do by not running the service at all, especially in the long run when you consider the loss of passengers because of unreliability.

 

[317 forever]

I was in the area for a little holiday a few days ago.

At the bus stations the display of imminent departures was interrupted every few seconds to remind us of the strikes due to happen.

There seems to have been a reduction in branding within Gateshead but still quite a bit in Sunderland.

Whereas Eldon Street bus station was usually rammed, the new Hub at North Shields was spacious and little used by comparison. It could have been better used had route 1 westbound (and Arriva route 306) been rerouted via the Hub too.

 

[Snex]

If GNE are so short, why haven't they gone back to asking A Line and other friends to help them out? Surely you lose less money having another operator cover work than you do by not running the service at all, especially in the long run when you consider the loss of passengers because of unreliability.

They already do, there's quite a few school routes sub contracted out to JH Coaches and L&G Coaches. It's why they show they on the Go North East tracking on Bustimes.org.