Grange-over-Sands Derailment - Response of local MP including idea to run a shuttle service

[thenorthern]

Recently I saw this leaflet by the Westmorland and Lonsdale Liberal Democrats, it contains what the local MP Tim Farron would like to happen. Looking at the article though it contains a lot of politician who knows nothing about the railways talk and I found it very tedious and frustrating to read. It seems to ignore a lot of important points such as:

• How do these this shuttle between Grange-over-Sands and Barrow work? Given the crossover is very close to the derailment how does he expect the trains to terminate at Grange? Also how does he propose to get the stock to the line? Obviously not round the coast given the loading gauge restrictions.
• How does this shuttle between Lancaster and Arnside work? Given as far as I am aware there is no crossover on the Arnside side of the Kent Viaduct how does it work? Also given a lot of the guards and drivers are based in Barrow (I think) how do they get to Arnside?
• While there have been cuts he mentions it's a "long standing" issue. What he fails to mention is most of the cuts were brought in by the coalition government which his party the Liberal Democrats were part of.

I must admit whenever a politician talks about the railways I normally find it frustrating as they don't seem to understand a lot of things like loading gauges, stock compatibility and much more. This really does take the mick though.

 

[yorksrob]

It's worth remembering that it was Tim Farron who managed to get a train service running to Windermere when Northern had given up.

Also, as someone confirmed on the thread to do with the derailment, a shuttle to Arnside was previously provided when the viaduct was being refurbished.

I couldn't comment on the technical/maintenance issues raised, however the idea of providing a shuttle is certainly worth raising.

 

[zwk500]

• How do these this shuttle between Grange-over-Sands and Barrow work? Given the crossover is very close to the derailment how does he expect the trains to terminate at Grange? Also how does he propose to get the stock to the line? Obviously not round the coast given the loading gauge restrictions.

Tim is an MP, not a rail operations specialist and therefore does not need to concern himself with such worldly questions. Also, if you see the main thread it appears Stock can get through the loading gauge restrictions if required. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/derailment-near-grange-over-sands.264799/

• How does this shuttle between Lancaster and Arnside work? Given as far as I am aware there is no crossover on the Arnside side of the Kent Viaduct how does it work? Also given a lot of the guards and drivers are based in Barrow (I think) how do they get to Arnside?

It would be possible to introduce some form of emergency single line/one train in section working between Carnforth and Arnside. Obviously this would be quite low capacity and require running unsignalled in one direction so is operationally not desirable but it's certainly not impossible. Crew can transfer in a Taxi if needed, again expensive but possible.

I must admit whenever a politician talks about the railways I normally find it frustrating as they don't seem to understand a lot of things like loading gauges, stock compatibility and much more. This really does take the mick though.

While it is extremely frustrating that politicians don't get the very basics of much of what they sound off about, I do understand that they're not meant to be experts in everything and that the issue of something like the precise regulations surrounding working unsignalled moves to Arnside, or the fact that a certain class of train is restricted from a line because the track centres are slightly too narrow, might be something they're not properly aware of and fail to consider it's impacts.

For me the bigger frustration is that what is a national cross-party issue (proper maintenance of infrastructure) has been weaponised into a party political issue for the elections. It happens every time but it doesn't lead to a productive outcome for the people who actually need or want to use the trains, roads, airports or whatever.

 

[Lucy1501]

It would be possible to introduce some form of emergency single line/one train in section working between Carnforth and Arnside.

• How do these this shuttle between Grange-over-Sands and Barrow work? Given the crossover is very close to the derailment how does he expect the trains to terminate at Grange? Also how does he propose to get the stock to the line? Obviously not round the coast given the loading gauge restrictions.
• How does this shuttle between Lancaster and Arnside work? Given as far as I am aware there is no crossover on the Arnside side of the Kent Viaduct how does it work? Also given a lot of the guards and drivers are based in Barrow (I think) how do they get to Arnside?

There is a signalled crossover at Grange-over-Sands at the up end of the station (23 points) that could be used to turn back services to Barrow. The main issue with this, however, is that it requires the train to head towards the Up Starting signal (13), which is pretty much right next to the derailment site.

The next obvious place to terminate would be Ulverston, the trailing crossover, however, is unsignalled from the station and there is no facility to set back into the down platform from the crossover either. This would need to be a fully unsignalled move to return to Barrow with clipping and scotching of points, which I imagine is too much effort for it to be considered.

Arnside used to have a trailing crossover North of the station which would have made working to it easy, however it was removed. I'd imagine single line working to Arnside could be a headache with the amount of automatic level crossings in section without wrong direction controls.

 

[DarloRich]

Anyone would think an election was looming.........................

( shows how easy it is for MP's to get a story in thier local paper! That is just a printed press release and has got a full page spread)

 

[HullRailMan]

The Dawlish sea wall collapsed when the Lib Dem’s were in government - is Tim accepting responsibility for that?

I can’t abide politicians of all stripes when they are making cheap points and spreading fear to grab a few votes.

 

[neilmc]

The thing is, Tim Farron is an incredibly good constituency MP who spends as much of his time as possible in Cumbria and gets enthusiastically involved in local issues which most Westminster MPs would try to avoid. As has already been stated he intervened on getting a service on the Windermere line and also contacted Network Rail late at night when a group of passengers were disgracefully locked in at Oxenholme. As a Cumbrian our rail services are bloody awful, the coast line has been neglected, the Settle and Carlisle line was almost closed, all the local small stations such as Shap and Tebay on the WCML have long since gone and Keswick has no rail line at all and the Tories just tried to close most of our surviving ticket offices.

 

[thenorthern]

Anyone would think an election was looming.........................

( shows how easy it is for MP's to get a story in thier local paper! That is just a printed press release and has got a full page spread)

No it was the Liberal Democrat election leaflet although the Liberal Democrats do have a habit of making their election leaflets look like newspaper articles.

The Dawlish sea wall collapsed when the Lib Dem’s were in government - is Tim accepting responsibility for that?

I can’t abide politicians of all stripes when they are making cheap points and spreading fear to grab a few votes.

I agree, particularly on railway issues as they seem to imply that complex issues can be easily solved.

The thing is, Tim Farron is an incredibly good constituency MP who spends as much of his time as possible in Cumbria and gets enthusiastically involved in local issues which most Westminster MPs would try to avoid. As has already been stated he intervened on getting a service on the Windermere line and also contacted Network Rail late at night when a group of passengers were disgracefully locked in at Oxenholme. As a Cumbrian our rail services are bloody awful, the coast line has been neglected, the Settle and Carlisle line was almost closed, all the local small stations such as Shap and Tebay on the WCML have long since gone and Keswick has no rail line at all and the Tories just tried to close most of our surviving ticket offices.

Indeed, while I was driving through South Lakeland today there were a lot of "Liberal Democrats winning here" signs. I am yet to see any for any other party in the area. Until Farron came along the area was relatively safe Conservative whereas now it's by far the most Liberal Democrat area in England.

 

[a_c_skinner]

This might scupper my MP's plans for a shuttle but Network Rail have yellow trains and diggers just on the Carnforth side of the Silverdale level crossing. I doubt they've done it to shut Mr Farron up about something he doesn't understand (you should hear him on hospitals!) but well done for using the stoppage well.

 

[randyrippley]

This might scupper my MP's plans for a shuttle but Network Rail have yellow trains and diggers just on the Carnforth side of the Silverdale level crossing. I doubt they've done it to shut Mr Farron up about something he doesn't understand (you should hear him on hospitals!) but well done for using the stoppage well.

That's really soft ground.... I wonder what they have found there.

 

[a_c_skinner]

That's really soft ground.... I wonder what they have found there.

Been there a few days at least, big JCB, and I think (Mrs S likes me to watch the road when driving) a few open top wagons, which could be delivering or removing.

 

[randyrippley]

That bit of track next to the birding hides has always been a problem, I wonder if the recent spring tides covered it?

 

[Class 170101]

Anyone would think an election was looming.........................

( shows how easy it is for MP's to get a story in thier local paper! That is just a printed press release and has got a full page spread)

Reflects more the standard and availability of local journalism, that leaflet in #Post1 could so easily be an article in a local paper with no work to it.

 

[mpthomson]

Anyone would think an election was looming.........................

( shows how easy it is for MP's to get a story in thier local paper! That is just a printed press release and has got a full page spread)

It's one of the many LibDem press publications designed to look like local papers, it's not in the actual local paper. (Westmorland Gazette) They normally have titles like 'South Lakes Focus' or similar.

Indeed, while I was driving through South Lakeland today there were a lot of "Liberal Democrats winning here" signs. I am yet to see any for any other party in the area. Until Farron came along the area was relatively safe Conservative whereas now it's by far the most Liberal Democrat area in England.

That's down to his reputation as a good constituency MP rather than any particular party bias. He's always been very present in the constituency, I've had a few beers with him in pubs in Milnthorpe over the years, as have many others.

 

[newtownmgr]

The Dawlish sea wall collapsed when the Lib Dem’s were in government - is Tim accepting responsibility for that?

I can’t abide politicians of all stripes when they are making cheap points and spreading fear to grab a few votes.

Do you mean when the lib dems were the junior party in the coalition government!

 

[BlueLeanie]

It's one of the many LibDem press publications designed to look like local papers, it's not in the actual local paper. (Westmorland Gazette) They normally have titles like 'South Lakes Focus' or similar.

There's been a major row about it before with some Newspaper groups threatening not to publish Liberal Democrat related stories if they don't stop publishing fake newspapers.

 

[simonw]

There's been a major row about it before with some Newspaper groups threatening not to publish Liberal Democrat related stories if they don't stop publishing fake newspapers.

Given the Tories round here play the,same game, I look forward to the express, mail etc threatening the same thing.

 

[mpthomson]

Given the Tories round here play the,same game, I look forward to the express, mail etc threatening the same thing.

LibDems take it to a different level though, they've got into trouble before for not providing publisher details or making it clear that it isn't a newspaper. The other parties produce newletters but do make it obvious that it's from a poloitical party rather than a free newpaper. It's a peculiarly LibDem thing.

 

[thenorthern]

I was walking over the bridge at the end of the promenade in Grange today and there are two new rails about to be put in place between the crossover at Grange signal box and the other side of the footbridge meaning a shuttle service between Barrow and Grange would be impossible anyway.