Great Northern Fleet - 379s

[whoosh]

They could just vinyl the doors on most 387s/379s and look uniform - but have chosen not to so far.

 

[D365]

They need a bit of a clean up inside and out....

Understatement

 

[crunchello]

Anyone know when the next move from Worksop to Hornsey for the 379s are? If so, how many are going - is it one at a time or could two or three be delivered at once?

 

[class717]

Anyone know when the next move from Worksop to Hornsey for the 379s are? If so, how many are going - is it one at a time or could two or three be delivered at once?

Another one coming on Tuesday?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K05515/2024-04-30/detailed

Should be two all being well

There you go

 

[physics34]

Great Northern has quite the mix of liveries, Thameslink striped and light blue doors on the 717, ex c2c 387/3 with dark blue doors, 387/1 with southern green doors, ex gwr 387/1 and possibly the 379 withe the current grey doors. I wonder if they would ever get a uniform livery.

Lets see if this GBR thing all goes through...

 

[Robski_]

Another move on Wednesday https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K05938/2024-05-01/detailed

 

[Sutton in Ant]

I was watching an episode of spotting where someone was train spotting on the ECML. Basically, there were a good few thameslink 700s operating Great Northern services. This may me wonder if let's say for hindsight that Great Northern were to use up to 10 700s Thameslink trains say on services from Kings X to Cambridge and the 379s is to serve the Kongs X to Ely and Kimgs Lynn and maybe Southern Railway were to get the 387s? It may work but it is something which more likely not to be true.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I was watching an episode of spotting where someone was train spotting on the ECML. Basically, there were a good few thameslink 700s operating Great Northern services. This may me wonder if let's say for hindsight that Great Northern were to use up to 10 700s Thameslink trains say on services from Kings X to Cambridge and the 379s is to serve the Kongs X to Ely and Kimgs Lynn and maybe Southern Railway were to get the 387s? It may work but it is something which more likely not to be true.

The plan is Southern are getting 30 387s or thereabouts. For me it is whether (purely for tidiness sake) Southern would be getting the rest of the GN 387s ?.

GN using extra 700s would make that possible and get rid of a microfleet - is that what you are saying ?.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

The plan is Southern are getting 30 387s or thereabouts. For me it is whether (purely for tidiness sake) Southern would be getting the rest of the GN 387s ?.

GN using extra 700s would make that possible and get rid of a microfleet - is that what you are saying ?.

Yes that is what I am saying

 

[Southern Dvr]

The plan is Southern are getting 30 387s or thereabouts. For me it is whether (purely for tidiness sake) Southern would be getting the rest of the GN 387s ?.

GN using extra 700s would make that possible and get rid of a microfleet - is that what you are saying ?.

Southern gets no increase in units from this cascade btw. Rumour mill is saying that a batch of 377s will be off to Southeastern.

 

[03_179]

There will be a cascade

 

[JonathanH]

There will be a cascade

That doesn't appear to be in doubt, the unknown is the net increase in units at GN, Southern and Southeastern.

 

[crunchello]

5Q79 on RTT appears not to have run today - anyone know if it’s running tomorrow as I was planning to go see it?

 

[Royston Vasey]

I was watching an episode of spotting where someone was train spotting on the ECML. Basically, there were a good few thameslink 700s operating Great Northern services. This may me wonder if let's say for hindsight that Great Northern were to use up to 10 700s Thameslink trains say on services from Kings X to Cambridge and the 379s is to serve the Kongs X to Ely and Kimgs Lynn and maybe Southern Railway were to get the 387s? It may work but it is something which more likely not to be true.

The Kings Lynn fast and Cambridge stoppers interwork since the May 2023 timetable change, so they'd have to rip up the diagrams to do what you're suggesting. So a Kings Lynn arrival at Kings Cross will go out as a Cambridge local and a Cambridge arrival goes out as a Kings Lynn fast.

700/0s can and do run to Kings Lynn (two each way per day) and hence some of the balancing village services as well, although the large majority are still Electrostars. https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/govia...or-passengers-in-new-summer-timetable-3250640

For example a Class 700/0 operates 1T15 0812 from KLN. Its diagram for the day is LET-KGX-KLN-KGX-CBG-KGX-ELY-KGX-CBG-KGX-ELY-KGX-CBG.

So, I would bet that they'd be much more likely to drop 700s onto more of those mixed diagrams, with the rest being 379, rather than try to segregate the fleets between local and fast services.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

Southern gets no increase in units from this cascade btw. Rumour mill is saying that a batch of 377s will be off to Southeastern.

Well, unfortunately. Southern replacements for 455s and the 313s are not going to happen. The DFT has never been a fan of Southern rail commuters.

 

[DannyMich2018]

The Kings Lynn fast and Cambridge stoppers interwork since the May 2023 timetable change, so they'd have to rip up the diagrams to do what you're suggesting. So a Kings Lynn arrival at Kings Cross will go out as a Cambridge local and a Cambridge arrival goes out as a Kings Lynn fast.

700/0s can and do run to Kings Lynn (two each way per day) and hence some of the balancing village services as well, although the large majority are still Electrostars. https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/govia...or-passengers-in-new-summer-timetable-3250640

For example a Class 700/0 operates 1T15 0812 from KLN. It's diagram for the day is LET-KGX-KLN-KGX-CBG-KGX-ELY-KGX-CBG-KGX-ELY-KGX-CBG.

So, I would bet that they'd be much more likely to drop 700s onto more of those mixed diagrams, with the rest being 379, rather than try to segregate the fleets between local and fast services.

Sorry quick question Class 700s are opetated by Thameslink and you say a few run to Kings Lynn however only Great Northern operate to Kings Lynn so are they hired out?

 

[Failed Unit]

Sorry quick question Class 700s are opetated by Thameslink and you say a few run to Kings Lynn however only Great Northern operate to Kings Lynn so are they hired out?

It is a bit of a hangover from the failure of Thameslink to deliver what was promised.

The Kings Cross - Cambridge (slow) was supposed to run through the core - it never happened and terminates at Kings Cross. But the platform useage / timetable wasn't the best with frequent blocking of platforms.
I assumed they intergrated between the routes to provide a better dwell time (about 20 minutes now)

Unfortunately they didn't have enough 387s so we have to put up with 700s now as well (but the 700s are not as reliable they expected so Thameslink doesn't notice as much when they fail now)

In a perfect world all the 700s will go from GN and be sent South of the River, but that is an option that is never mentioned. Interesting that on the daigrams on the 700s Cambridge - Mainstone still appears as "route under development" on the map.

I don't know how many units GN needs, 8 would be good to rid it of the 700s, but we also have a number of services that still are not back on the timetable (such as London - Baldock - but they could be 700 operated if we really must keep them north of the river) - Keep the unreliable stock on the less intensive used diagrams.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Sorry quick question Class 700s are opetated by Thameslink and you say a few run to Kings Lynn however only Great Northern operate to Kings Lynn so are they hired out?

No, they are the same company, GTR, and although maintenance is done by different teams at Hornsey, they are effectively one operator under different brands.

 

[43096]

The DFT has never been a fan of Southern rail commuters.

What does that even mean? It’s an utterly fatuous statement. DfT make decisions on various factors, but whether they “like” a particular area/group/whatever certainly isn’t one of them.

 

[MikeWM]

So, I would bet that they'd be much more likely to drop 700s onto more of those mixed diagrams, with the rest being 379, rather than try to segregate the fleets between local and fast services.

I'll bet they end up doing that too, completely disregarding the fact that 700s were specifically designed internally for moving around large numbers of people on services with lots of stops, and not designed at all for long distance non-stop services such as the Cambridge 'cruiser'.

I barely ever travel to London on Saturdays now - mostly because between the Cambridge South works, the Cambridge resignalling, the strikes, and the way GTR are worse affected by overtime bans than everyone else, there's very few Saturdays that I can - but also because on the rare occasion that a service is actually running between Ely and London the choice is usually between sitting on a very uncomfortable 700 for over an hour, or trying to squash onto a 387 that started back at Kings Lynn and may well be standing-room only leaving Ely.

I've said this already, but if the legacy of GN getting 379s is more 700s on long-distance services, that's a major step *backwards*.

 

[dk1]

I'll bet they end up doing that too, completely disregarding the fact that 700s were specifically designed internally for moving around large numbers of people on services with lots of stops, and not designed at all for long distance non-stop services such as the Cambridge 'cruiser'.

I barely ever travel to London on Saturdays now - mostly because between the Cambridge South works, the Cambridge resignalling, the strikes, and the way GTR are worse affected by overtime bans than everyone else, there's very few Saturdays that I can - but also because on the rare occasion that a service is actually running between Ely and London the choice is usually between sitting on a very uncomfortable 700 for over an hour, or trying to squash onto a 387 that started back at Kings Lynn and may well be standing-room only leaving Ely.

I've said this already, but if the legacy of GN getting 379s is more 700s on long-distance services, that's a major step *backwards*.

During one of the recent ASOS weeks I caught a Cambridge to Three Bridges service. Was formed of a 12-car and only one train per hour. It was full & standing from Hitchin as the ‘Cruiser’ preceding it was also cancelled.

 

[SteveU821]

5Q79 on RTT appears not to have run today - anyone know if it’s running tomorrow as I was planning to go see it?

 

[JonathanH]

It was full & standing from Hitchin

It is fair to say that the 700s are designed for that. 379s and 387s less so.

 

[SteveU821]

5Q79 Worksop to Hornsey is down as running tomorrow 01/05/25. Same timings

 

[dk1]

It is fair to say that the 700s are designed for that. 379s and 387s less so.

Oh yes of course. Was getting on for crush loaded in certain carriages after Stevenage which is what they were designed for and as was only for around 25 minutes, nobody was that bothered.

 

[Benjwri]

Interesting that on the daigrams on the 700s Cambridge - Mainstone still appears as "route under development" on the map.

Those maps are slowly being replaced with that disappearing.

 

[jon0844]

It is fair to say that the 700s are designed for that. 379s and 387s less so.

387s are now getting increasingly uncomfortable at times so while I get that people prefer the interior (presumably if they can get a seat earlier on) the loss of 700s will be a problem in years to come.

They're designed to move large numbers of people and when festival season begins and/or the sun comes out, I think people will miss them.

Likewise when there's a cancellation. Better standing on a train than sitting on a platform because you couldn't get on.

Those maps are slowly being replaced with that disappearing.

Yes the new route maps don't include this anymore.

 

[bramling]

387s are now getting increasingly uncomfortable at times so while I get that people prefer the interior (presumably if they can get a seat earlier on) the loss of 700s will be a problem in years to come.

They're designed to move large numbers of people and when festival season begins and/or the sun comes out, I think people will miss them.

Likewise when there's a cancellation. Better standing on a train than sitting on a platform because you couldn't get on.

The 387 was never a great design due to the narrow gangways. Dare one say that the 365s handled crowds rather better as they were rather more spacious - the irony being they also had more seats.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, 365s would be preferable to 387s - although given the lack of DOO, air con, CCTV and being ready for ETCS, that wasn't an option.

The next best solution would be for the 379s to get a new interior to be more like the 365s with the possibility of a wider aisle as a result. People being able to move inside a train really helps as people can get to the toilet, move down to free up vestibule space etc.

However cramped a 387/379 might get, at least it isn't as bad as what Greater Anglia went with. No chance of anyone moving down on those, and if you get a seat then you're pretty much stuck if the train gets packed.

 

[Royston Vasey]

387s are now getting increasingly uncomfortable at times so while I get that people prefer the interior (presumably if they can get a seat earlier on) the loss of 700s will be a problem in years to come.

Few 12 car runs in the peaks these days too, and I can't see that changing when the more comfy but less numerous 379s arrive. Certainly feels like several 387s are still needed to avoid a net fleet reduction which would go down very badly. Perhaps the 6x 387/3s if keeping just one subclass makes any difference.

between Ely and London the choice is usually between sitting on a very uncomfortable 700 for over an hour, or trying to squash onto a 387 that started back at Kings Lynn and may well be standing-room only leaving Ely

Ely - Stansted - Liverpool St for the win