Islineclear3_1
Established Member
On my travels today I saw one of these get on a Southern train. Now I've seen rail enforcement officers but this...?
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GTR Evidence Gatherer(?)
- Thread starter Islineclear3_1
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RailUK Forums
From a quick google search, people with that job title are employed by GTR to deal with downloading and processing CCTV footage.
I had a laugh at East Croydon when I saw 4 Rpi in combat style uniform accompanied by 2 travel safe officers board a Southern service south last week during the overtime ban. Surely they would be better deployed on Thameslink who have no OBS. The poor souls north have not been issued with the same clothing causing another inconsistenty that seems to sum up GTR
The sad reality is that there are so few it won’t make any difference anyway
The sad reality is that there are so few it won’t make any difference anyway
Combat style uniform! Who comes up with these bonkers ideas?
Cargo/combat trousers are common uniform items. They’re comfortable and ideal for people such as RPIs and enforcement officers who spend much of their time walking about. Some also wear stab vests due to the nature of some of the railway’s clientele (especially in places such as East Croydon).
What’s “bonkers” about that?
Tazi Hupefi
Member
Nothing bonkers about it. These are some of the most dangerous customer facing roles on the railway, especially on the outskirts of London. There are fairly regular incidents of serious violence, up to and including stabbings, which are less common but pose a real risk.
They're also expected to assist with first aid and other more hands-on responsibilities. They're not wearing combat, but they are wearing tactical and protective clothing.
Most TOCs have similar roles, Rail Enforcement Officer, Byelaw Enforcement Officers etc - most of these also have quasi police powers and information available to them.
The potential powers available to these railway staff include:
A southeastern REO was stabbed at Bromley South not too long ago. It’s not bonkers.
The attire is similar to that of Land Sheriffs so “combat style uniform” is not quite correct but it is certainly more security-focused than standard railway attire
Are you saying that wearing of combat style uniform makes them less likely to come to harm?
I can see how wearing a stab vest might make someone less likely to come to harm from being stabbed. Surely that’s obvious?
What do you think they should wear?
Tazi Hupefi
Member
Yes. Exactly. The primary purpose is that it is all classed as employee personal protective equipment, so there's a statutory health and safety duty for the TOC/agency to provide appropriate clothing and equipment.
Second, most people respond well to authoritative looking people. It can also provide reassurance and/or a deterrent effect, even if it is sometimes just for show.
You will always get people who look to pick a battle with people who look like they are in authoritative positions, such as revenue or Byelaw officers - but the scrotes probably know that if they try it on with these guys in the tactical gear, it's probably going to result in a more hands-on approach compared to the typical revenue inspector.
Not to justify the actions of the staff in this particularly unusual edge case, but they're certainly more than happy to get physical, albeit normally within conventional and lawful limits
Security guards broke train passenger's leg twice
Pair used "unnecessary force" to eject the passenger from Liverpool Central Station
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk
I agree with most of your post, but this perhaps isn’t the best example to use. These were Carlisle Security rent-a-thugs, rather than TOC staff, who perform a night club bouncer type role, and generally* aren’t used to patrol trains, enforce bylaws etc. in the manner of RPIs and REOs. Let’s hope that remains the case!
*Merseyrail being an exception, as pointed out below.
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Tazi Hupefi
Member
They do patrol trains extensively on Merseyrail, they can also issue Penalty Fares and other notices authorised by British Transport Police under the accreditation scheme. They also enforce the "feet on seat" problem.
Merseyrail also has their own revenue protection team.
I hadn’t appreciated that, thanks. That doesn’t bode well!
Tazi Hupefi
Member
By and large they're actually pretty good from what I hear, you're going to get people taking things to the extreme in any role.
There is definitely a need for staff on the railway who don't mind getting a bit heavy and physical with certain types of passengers, who I'm all sure we have all unfortunately encountered every so often, usually under the influence of something, and who just won't take no for an answer, and/or are causing themselves or others to be exposed to an unacceptable level of risk.
To get the thread back on topic, those sorts of staff clearly need to be clothed appropriately, I don't think rolling around on a platform floor in a three piece suit is very practical!
You can wear a stab vest on top of any uniform.
I don't believe any rail staff wear three piece suits anymore.
Tazi Hupefi
Member
I still encounter plenty of staff in trousers, waistcoat and jacket quite regularly all across the rail network.
gray1404
Established Member
Can I ask what other notices they are authorised to issue on Merseyrail?
Yes if they are wearing a stab proof vest and “combat style” trousers. Also all those dregs of society might think twice about threatening someone like that.
And most staff aren’t getting into a situation that would be anywhere near that confrontational.
I assume that would be their uniform as opposed to garments bought at the likes of Marks and Spencers.
How do combat style trousers offer more protection than other trousers?
Thicker/bulkier and made of different material generally. Won’t get damaged or ripped so easily. Not sure what your obsession is with this topic.
I'm not obsessed but i think that wearing this kind of gear can attract the wrong sort of person to the job.
I highly doubt people are going into these roles to show off their uniform and “play security”! It’s a practical outcome of the roles they do.
Tazi Hupefi
Member
In theory, everything listed here is at least possible.
However, this is generalised and each TOC/agency supplying a TOC will have different powers depending on what has been negotiated with BTP and/or other authorities.
They are uniform items, and are issued only to certain grades, for good reasons, which happen to be the same reasons why those same grades wear more security focussed uniform.
You keep changing your argument. First you seemed to be saying the uniforms didn’t offer any extra protection. Now that has been debunked, you’re arguing that this kind of uniform will attract the wrong kind of people. Ultimately that is just your own - seemingly unsupported - hunch.
Nowadays there is an expectation that employers will equip their employees appropriately, and that includes appropriate uniforms, stab vests etc. it’s a function of the world we live in - see also why the police now routinely wear stab vests and combats, rather than still dressing like Dixon of Dock Green.
Quite rightly, it’s about keeping them safe, rather than pandering to the whims of those who don’t themselves do jobs likely to bring them into regular contact physical conflict with society’s dregs.
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