GWR planning Saturday Bristol - Oxford service Sept to Dec 2024

[Benjwri]

Anyone got the timetable for the old Bristol to Oxford service?

Theres certainly demand. People can be put off using rail if there's no direct service as People don't always want to change trains on a journey

I don’t have a timetable, but it was a lot slower because it used a turbo via the loop at Challow which was overtaken. Plus when compared to the opportunities to change st Didcot, with only every other Bristol service now calling, there is far less opportunity to get travel.

 

[jayah]

Although only a trial until December, so won't necessarily remain at all after then, and very likely not in the same form.

The timings quoted in the above statement do suggest it will be only part of a units diagram, as it is unlikely to be able to take a platform up at BTM for 2 hours, presumably it is being used for something else in the peaks and between the two runs to Oxford.

How does a trial like this work?

The timetable for December until next year will be final and published before the even trial starts.

 

[Devonian]

Anyone got the timetable for the old Bristol to Oxford service?

E.g. September 2001, Monday to Friday:

Bristol TM	Bath Spa	Chippenham	Swindon	Didcot	Oxford
0620	0632	0644	0702	0724	0743
0715	0729	0741	0803	-	0836
0902	0915	0926	0943	1008	1030
1000	1012	1024	1040	1105	1126
1128	1140	1153	1210	1232	1254
1330	1341	1354	1412	1437	1459
1428	1441	1454	1510	1531	1559
1549	1604	1617	1633	1656	1716
1729	1744	1757	1813	1838	1854
1850	1902	1915	1933	1954	2011
1948	1959	2012	2032	-	2110
2100	2112	2125	2141	2202	2223

Fewer services on Saturdays/Sundays

 

[anthony263]

E.g. September 2001, Monday to Friday:

Bristol TM	Bath Spa	Chippenham	Swindon	Didcot	Oxford
0620	0632	0644	0702	0724	0743
0715	0729	0741	0803	-	0836
0902	0915	0926	0943	1008	1030
1000	1012	1024	1040	1105	1126
1128	1140	1153	1210	1232	1254
1330	1341	1354	1412	1437	1459
1428	1441	1454	1510	1531	1559
1549	1604	1617	1633	1656	1716
1729	1744	1757	1813	1838	1854
1850	1902	1915	1933	1954	2011
1948	1959	2012	2032	-	2110
2100	2112	2125	2141	2202	2223

Fewer services on Saturdays/Sundays

Thank you for that. I think this trial will hopefully prove to be a success as there's demand there for such a service especially if you could add new stations between Bristol and Swindon

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

E.g. September 2001, Monday to Friday:

Bristol TM	Bath Spa	Chippenham	Swindon	Didcot	Oxford
0620	0632	0644	0702	0724	0743
0715	0729	0741	0803	-	0836
0902	0915	0926	0943	1008	1030
1000	1012	1024	1040	1105	1126
1128	1140	1153	1210	1232	1254
1330	1341	1354	1412	1437	1459
1428	1441	1454	1510	1531	1559
1549	1604	1617	1633	1656	1716
1729	1744	1757	1813	1838	1854
1850	1902	1915	1933	1954	2011
1948	1959	2012	2032	-	2110
2100	2112	2125	2141	2202	2223

Fewer services on Saturdays/Sundays

Amazing, that’s far more services than my memory recollects. At a guess I would have said there were 5 or 6 each way!

 

[The Planner]

How does a trial like this work?

The timetable for December until next year will be final and published before the even trial starts.

You can add trains in whenever you want if space is there. Either at a timetable period change or any agreed date via whats called a train operator variation request TOVR (or spot bid in old money)

 

[infobleep]

Can someone remind me why the previous service ceased in 2003?

 

[Mark J]

GWR have announced proposed departure times for 2 trains a day on Saturdays from Bristol Temple Meads to Oxford and back. No information about what rolling stock.

Great Western Railway planning to restore direct Bristol-Oxford services

Great Western Railway is planning to run direct services between Bristol Temple Meads and Oxford for the first time in more than 20 years.

news.gwr.com

How will that work when Didcot West Junction is required for train service movements, as it was last weekend.

All services going north of Didcot had to reverse up Didcot West to proceed.

Will the Oxford > Bristol service be run with Class 166, due to the lack of overhead power between Didcot and Oxford?

 

[MarkyT]

Will the Oxford > Bristol service be run with Class 166, due to the lack of overhead power between Didcot and Oxford?

Seems to be 80x which can switch to diesel while stationary at Didcot or on the move.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Can someone remind me why the previous service ceased in 2003?

Discussed in post 13.

 

[Benjwri]

How will that work when Didcot West Junction is required for train service movements, as it was last weekend.

All services going north of Didcot had to reverse up Didcot West to proceed.

That’s quite a rare occurrence, but I would imagine they could still fit them through, or if not they would just be cancelled for that weekend.

 

[The Planner]

How will that work when Didcot West Junction is required for train service movements, as it was last weekend.

All services going north of Didcot had to reverse up Didcot West to proceed.

Will the Oxford > Bristol service be run with Class 166, due to the lack of overhead power between Didcot and Oxford?

That’s quite a rare occurrence, but I would imagine they could still fit them through, or if not they would just be cancelled for that weekend.

The trains have contingent rights, so only work if there are paths. If for whatever reason trains need to use Didcot West and these trains were in the way, they would get cancelled off. If they had firm rights then the they go into the mix of NR/GWR deciding which fit and are more important.

 

[Mark J]

Seems to be 80x which can switch to diesel while stationary at Didcot or on the move.

I'll rather GWR used any 'spare' sets to lengthen train services that are overcrowded, rather than a new service.

For example. A five carriage 800 set on a Saturday morning, from Paddington to Oxford is not sufficient.

That’s quite a rare occurrence, but I would imagine they could still fit them through, or if not they would just be cancelled for that weekend.

Admittedly the GW mainline west of Didcot was closed last weekend.

However, it was a spectacle watching all these trains waiting to reverse at Didcot West in order to carry on where they were going!

 

[Benjwri]

I'll rather GWR used any 'spare' sets to lengthen train services that are overcrowded, rather than a new service.

For example. A five carriage 800 set on a Saturday morning, from Paddington to Oxford is not sufficient.

This unit wouldn't be able to be used on a Oxford morning service. It starts in Bristol, and therefore is almost definitely coming from Stoke Gifford, and therefore would be almost impossible to get into place for a Paddington to Oxford morning run, as the split of units between depots, in terms of how many are being provided, is set. It's also worth remembering the Bristol to London services are also hideously busy on a Saturday, and these services will help take some load away from these for people travelling anywhere other than Reading or London. It is also likely to help a bit with Oxford trains and the customers that join at Didcot from the west.

Regardless, for a portion of this time during the Bath Christmas markets this service is likely to run instead of one of the market extras, so at those time no stock will be lost.

 

[The exile]

I'll rather GWR used any 'spare' sets to lengthen train services that are overcrowded, rather than a new service.

The new service will potentially alleviate some of that overcrowding as it basically covers the outer parts of two busy routes without getting crammed with London(and Reading)-bound passengers

 

[zwk500]

That’s quite a rare occurrence, but I would imagine they could still fit them through, or if not they would just be cancelled for that weekend.

You can run the trains further to Milton Jn so that you can get trains from the curve direct onto the Mains at Foxhall Jn, not a great problem at all tbh.

The bigger problem is likely to be the cross-platform shunt for the Didcot terminator and only 1 relief line, which I suspect is why the number of reversing moves has been limited. (The shunt can go up to the goods line, but there's still then only 1 passenger-rated line from Foxhall Jn to Didcot parkway, and only access to Plats 3 and 4).

 

[infobleep]

Discussed in post 13.

Thanks I missed your earlier comment.

Hopefully it will be reasonably successful this time and the proformance will be good enough, then lwss chance of it being axed in the future.

I no longer live in Oxford so it won't be something I'll be using.

I probably used it 3 times in 1999. One of my trips was before the first train of the day ran, so I changed at Didcot.

 

[ollie_hunt1660]

Did any of the old Bristol to Oxfords call at Appleford, Culham or Radley?

 

[DaveHarries]

Interesting to see this planned restoration of Bristol - Oxford services. My work as a driver for a vehicle hire company means that I can currently do Oxford - Bristol for around £20 single (£2 on the S6 bus from Oxford to Swindon, then train Swindon - Bristol): I wonder if GWR will manage to undercut that.

Dave

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Interesting to see this planned restoration of Bristol - Oxford services. My work as a driver for a vehicle hire company means that I can currently do Oxford - Bristol for around £20 single (£2 on the S6 bus from Oxford to Swindon, then train Swindon - Bristol): I wonder if GWR will manage to undercut that.

Dave

Probably not on price, but how long does your version take?

 

[DaveHarries]

Probably not on price, but how long does your version take?

Fair point. Would beat it on price but not on time. If I try and do it by train at present leaving Oxford station (where the S6 currently terminates due to the works on the railway bridge) leaving at 1400 tomorrow:

Train:
Oxford to Didcot Parkway: dep. 1409, arr. 1426 (17 minutes)
Didcot Parkway - Swindon: dep. 1438, arr. 1456 (18 minutes)

Bus:
Oxford to Swindon: dep. 1415, arr. 1537 (82 minutes) direct.

The bus also carries a schedule of 3 trips per hour for much of the day until early evening. In terms of price though the GWR app quotes £12.60 whereas the bus would be £2.00. And the bus is scheduled to operate at a frequency of 3 per hour, journey time 82 minutes from Oxford to Swindon during the day as well instead of the 47 minutes offered by the train and that is on the presumption that the trains run to time.

However I live and work in Bristol. If, for example, I get sent to Oxford and have to get back to Bristol TM leaving Oxford at around 1400:

Train:
Oxford to Didcot Parkway: dep. 1409, arr. 1426 (17 minutes)
Didcot Parkway - Bristol TM: dep. 1438, arr. 1537 (59 minutes)

Bus and Train:
Oxford to Swindon: dep. 1415, arr. 1537 (82 minutes) direct.
Swindon - Bristol TM (Train): dep. 1555, arr. 1635 (40 minutes) direct.

So the train is, of course, quicker than the bus on both counts. In terms of fares:

Train Only: £28.10 Single
Train and Bus: £21.10 on single tickets

So not a massive saving from Oxford. If I am coming from Banbury (which I sometimes get sent to):

Train:
Banbury - Bristol TM: £38.50

Train & Bus:
Banbury - Oxford: £7.10 (Train)
Oxford - Swindon: £2.00 (Bus)
Swindon - Bristol TM: £19.10 (Train)
Total: £28.20

So saving by using the bus from Oxford to Swindon is £10.30 compared to doing it only by train. So the savings are not that huge and I know that. But when I have got on at Oxford station I have tended to find that I am not the only paying passenger doing the bus trip end-to-end.

Dave

 

[Busaholic]

The proposed timetable is only of value for passengers travelling from Bristol to Oxford for a few hours, and not the other way round as implied by the GWR 'spin.'

 

[Benjwri]

The proposed timetable is only of value for passengers travelling from Bristol to Oxford for a few hours, and not the other way round as implied by the GWR 'spin.'

It’s a trial though, the whole point is to gauge usage and see whether people would use it, and if so how many, with the current fleet restraints and without spending too much.

The success is gauged by comparing it to usage on the route changing at Didcot/Reading before the change, or similar.

 

[156444]

You can run the trains further to Milton Jn so that you can get trains from the curve direct onto the Mains at Foxhall Jn, not a great problem at all tbh.

The bigger problem is likely to be the cross-platform shunt for the Didcot terminator and only 1 relief line, which I suspect is why the number of reversing moves has been limited. (The shunt can go up to the goods line, but there's still then only 1 passenger-rated line from Foxhall Jn to Didcot parkway, and only access to Plats 3 and 4).

The Didcot terminator normally uses Platform 5 on a Saturday rather than shunting from 3 to 4, so I don't think that would be an issue for the trial

 

[Benjwri]

The service has made it into the provisional WTT from 14 September. Diagrams as follows:
5D58 0924 Stoke Gifford to Bristol Temple Meads 0944
1D58 1018 Bristol Temple Meads to Oxford 1129
5N61 1132 Oxford to Oxford 1200
1N61 1203 Oxford to Bristol Temple Meads 1312
5N61 1320 Bristol Temple Meads to Stoke Gifford 1340


5D68 1442 Stoke Gifford to Bristol Temple Meads 1508
1D68 1518 Bristol Temple Meads to Oxford 1631
5N71 1634 Oxford to Oxford 1707
1N71 1712 Oxford to Bristol Temple Meads 1823
5N71 1842 Bristol Temple Meads to Stoke Gifford 1915

As expected lathes as Class 80X, with First Class and trolley service.

 

[lachlan]

The service has made it into the provisional WTT from 14 September. Diagrams as follows:
5D58 0924 Stoke Gifford to Bristol Temple Meads 0944
1D58 1018 Bristol Temple Meads to Oxford 1129
5N61 1132 Oxford to Oxford 1200
1N61 1203 Oxford to Bristol Temple Meads 1312
5N61 1320 Bristol Temple Meads to Stoke Gifford 1340


5D68 1442 Stoke Gifford to Bristol Temple Meads 1508
1D68 1518 Bristol Temple Meads to Oxford 1631
5N71 1634 Oxford to Oxford 1707
1N71 1712 Oxford to Bristol Temple Meads 1823
5N71 1842 Bristol Temple Meads to Stoke Gifford 1915

As expected lathes as Class 80X, with First Class and trolley service.

Thanks for sharing - it only appears to save 10 minutes versus changing at Didcot. That being said extra trains are always welcome and we're looking forward to visits to Oxford and perhaps Bicester too with fewer changes. If successful, they'll provide valuable connections to East West Rail too

 

[anthony263]

Donto be surprised to see east-west services run through to Bristol TM. Saves terminating at Oxford

 

[Brissle Girl]

Donto be surprised to see east-west services run through to Bristol TM. Saves terminating at Oxford

Really? That would require an extra 5 diagrams at the very least, possibly 6, if all services were extended. That would approximately double the running costs of the service, if stock was even available.

 

[The Planner]

Donto be surprised to see east-west services run through to Bristol TM. Saves terminating at Oxford

I will be. They certainly aren't running past Oxford in the short term.

 

[Benjwri]

Really? That would require an extra 5 diagrams at the very least, possibly 6, if all services were extended. That would approximately double the running costs of the service, if stock was even available

Not to mention a bunch of paths via Bath that don't exist.