HELP!Job centre railcard fraud investigation

[skittlesonmars]

Good evening,

Before I explain things, I would just like to say I do not need anyone telling me how awful it is or how I am wrong for doing so. I know I am, I simply would just like some advice on how to put this right please.

I travelled on WM trains for about a year, but only for one stop which never had a ticket inspector. So I added the job centre railcard to my tickets which gave me 50% off, I received an email from WM trains fraud team to show proof of this. I panicked and said that I have a family member who uses my account and buys tickets as he/she does not work and uses the railcard. To which they have now requested proof of this, which I do not have as I don’t know anyone.

Please could anyone tell me how to get myself out of this? Or what to respond please. Again, I already know I am in the wrong and have pretty much learnt my lesson here.
Really appreciate your answers !

 

[gray1404]

Were you stopped and spoken to while making a journey or at the end of a journey by a member of staff and perhaps asked to show your Railcard or has this email come totally out of the blue?

 

[Haywain]

Good evening,

Before I explain things, I would just like to say I do not need anyone telling me how awful it is or how I am wrong for doing so. I know I am, I simply would just like some advice on how to put this right please.

I travelled on WM trains for about a year, but only for one stop which never had a ticket inspector. So I added the job centre railcard to my tickets which gave me 50% off, I received an email from WM trains fraud team to show proof of this. I panicked and said that I have a family member who uses my account and buys tickets as he/she does not work and uses the railcard. To which they have now requested proof of this, which I do not have as I don’t know anyone.

Please could anyone tell me how to get myself out of this? Or what to respond please. Again, I already know I am in the wrong and have pretty much learnt my lesson here.
Really appreciate your answers !

Some people here would advise you not to respond to the initial email, but you have already done so. In the process you have chosen to dig the hole you are in somewhat deeper, which wasn't the best idea. Now you have two choices, you can ignore the matter and hope that the train company do not pursue you for the fares you have failed to pay - they may, or may not, go through the civil courts to obtain that money or look to bring a prosecution for fraud. Neither of those would seem to be good outcomes and as they are not particularly time limited you could wait for a long time to find out if further action will be taken. The alternative is to accept that you are going to have to pay to clear the matter up and respond to the latest communication with absolute honesty, and see where that goes. The likelihood is that you will be asked to pay an appropriate amount of money to settle the matter, based on the fares you avoided plus an administration fee of around £150 to £200.

 

[skittlesonmars]

Were you stopped and spoken to while making a journey or at the end of a journey by a member of staff and perhaps asked to show your Railcard or has this email come totally out of the blue?

No I was not, I’ve never been stopped before. Email is out of the blue!

 

[Brissle Girl]

Unlike some instances where the railway may highly suspect fraud based on ticket purchasing, but might find it difficult to prove, I think here they would find it much easier, for the simple reason that there isnt anyone with that railcard that you could ask to give evidence in court that they were using your account to purchase those tickets.

And besides, if you were buying tickets to commute for a year, that itself suggests you are not in need of assistance from a Job Centre.

So my advice would be to cooperate, admit what you have done, and hope they offer you an out of court settlement.

 

[CyrusWuff]

It should be noted that Jobcentre Plus discount cards are only valid for a maximum of three months, and I have a vague memory that there has to be a minimum of a month's break before you can get another (though I can't find the relevant DWP staff guide on GOV.UK to confirm that.)

If the OP has been buying JCP discounted tickets for almost a year, that would likely explain why it's been picked up without them having been stopped at a station or onboard a train.

 

[furlong]

I have a vague memory that there has to be a minimum of a month's break before you can get another (though I can't find the relevant DWP staff guide on GOV.UK to confirm that.)

I've not come across that, only that you're not supposed to make a repeat application until the previous one has expired .

 

[AlterEgo]

It would be interesting to know which “one stop journey” you were making, and whether the train company can draw inferences from your home address about whether that really was the journey you were making. I suspect they may also reckon you’ve been short faring by buying tickets which don’t cover your full journey.

Which two stations was the journey between?

 

[island]

I've not come across that, only that you're not supposed to make a repeat application until the previous one has expired .

I can't say whether it's a rule, a custom/practice, or just a repeated rumour. What I can say is that JCP discount cards are (meant to be) only issued for a maximum of 3 months at a time, when someone has been engaged with JCP for over 13 weeks, and whilst they are still on benefits. (A final card can be issued just before they start a new job to give 3 months travel at the reduced rate after starting.) Someone using this discount for almost a year is sufficiently unusual to be worth enquiring into, as WMT has done.

 

[Skymonster]

Before I explain things, I would just like to say I do not need anyone telling me how awful it is or how I am wrong for doing so. I know I am, I simply would just like some advice on how to put this right please.

Firstly no one here is going to do that - maybe a furtive rolling of the eyes and the though “not another one” but this forum‘s role is to offer suggestions that its experts believe are the best to reduce the impact of that you’ve done.

You have appeared on WMT’s radar - it is highly unliKelly the train company has absolute proof, but a trawl through the databases associated with online ticket purchase has raised suspicions, for reasons already explained, that warrant investigation.

Now you could choose to ignore the email and hope the matter goes away - it might, but consider that if WMT does not receive a reply from you it is unlikely to give up at this stage. So, no response may result in WMT mounting a revenue block at the station where you get off the train. If you carry on with the JCP discounts and WMT catches you that would be much more damning than a suspicion. You are buying online, so if you suddenly stop applying the discount WMT might wonder why someone would do that immediately after their investigators had sent oit an email - more suspicions and again they could mount a revenue block at the times you travel; anyone with a ticket from A to B whether digital or paper might come in for particular attention. WMT staff can ask for names and addresses based on suspicions, and refusing to provide such is another railway offence.

So if you choose to ignore the email, you better be squeaky clean going forward and consider even doing that could involve risk of you being picked up.

Alternatively you could fess up to WMT. WMT will usually consider an administrative disposal rather than court action if the miscreants is appologetic / contrite and shows they have taken steps to ensure they won’t repeat their crimes. But, if WMT offer an administrative disposal it is likely to demand a lump sum paymount amounting to standard open single tickets for every journey taken (no allowances for fares already paid, no allowance for peak / off peak, no return fares even if you traveled both ways on the same day), plus a fee of £100-£200 to cover their investigative costs. Only you can calculate how much that might be, WMT will also expect full payment within a couple of weeks and does not have to entertain negotiations.

So there we have it… Possibly nothing further, possibly further investigation (in which case you need to be very careful), or an admission that triggers a potentially significant payment.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The problem with the above analysis is that the OP has already replied and lied to WMT that someone else was using their account to buy tickets with a Job Centre railcard.

All WMT has to do is ask for proof of that, and as the OP will not be able to provide an individual to give evidence to that effect, the case will be proven against them.

So the “do nothing and hope it goes away” option isn’t really possible.

 

[Haywain]

All WMT has to do is ask for proof of that,

Which they have done.

 

[Skymonster]

Indeed, I don’t think WMT will drop the matter if they receive no further response. The lie exacerbates the matter and could potentially make reaching a settlement more difficult, but this has been going on for a year and I think it unlikely WMT would have given up at this stage anyway, even without the lie. I would not recommend not engaging but its out there as an option, albeit the OP would have to be scrupulously careful going forward (probably not travel by rail for a good while) to avoid being caught in person eventually.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Which they have done.

Yes, absolutely. I was thinking more in terms of if it got to court, as the only possible defence would be shot by the inability to produce evidence to support their claim. And if they have no evidence then therefore it must have been them travelling.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Yes, absolutely. I was thinking more in terms of if it got to court, as the only possible defence would be shot by the inability to produce evidence to support their claim. And if they have no evidence then therefore it must have been them travelling.

The fact that the card isn't valid for the length of time that the discount was being applied for should be a slam dunk