Heritage Railways' Policies on Lineside Photographers in Hi-Vis

[RetroCrowe]

Hi all, apologies for what is likely a daft question incoming, but this is something that's been on my mind for a little while and I can't find a proper answer online. Every time I visit a gala at the East Lancs or Severn Valley Railways, I always see plenty of people in hi-vis dotted along the lineside taking photos/videos of the trains. However, as far as I can tell, neither of these railways offer lineside permits to the general public, so my question is, what is the policy these railways take to these lineside photographers? Could any Tom, Dick or Harry just stick on a hi-vis and get on the other side of the fence to get a better shot as long as they keep it sensible, or do they get kicked out or fined for trespassing?

 

[matt]

For the Severn Valley at least they used to do a lineside permit scheme. This has now been stopped however anyone who still had an in-date permit can use it lineside until it expires.

 

[156444]

I was on a heritage railway recently where the train stopped and the guard got out to go and invite an unauthorised orange-clad lineside photographer to leave. I doubt he was fined (on the basis that the guard wasn't gone for very long), but the word trespassing was certainly being used.

 

[Enthusiast]

The Bluebell provides lineside passes on completion of a course:

Lineside Photographer's Safety Course - Bluebell Railway in Sussex

www.bluebell-railway.com

 

[leezer3]

I was under the impression that the current Heritage Railways Association guidance was against issuing passes to 'pure' amatuer photographers.

The NNR certainly used to issue them on a similar scheme but then withdrew these and restricted to working members, and as I remember the communications were about wider external guidance.

Frankly, in many cases I don't blame them with the antics of some I've seen in the past.

 

[RetroCrowe]

For the Severn Valley at least they used to do a lineside permit scheme. This has now been stopped however anyone who still had an in-date permit can use it lineside until it expires.

I do recall hearing about this a few years ago, although many of these people I see along the lineside are no older than 16 or 17, so surely these permits wouldn't have been issued to children under the age of 16?

 

[peteb]

It's a lot harder for heritage railways to police trespass at occupation crossings and footpath crossings, where the public is authorised to cross the line. I guess it depends on how long someone "dwells" on the crossing. I always stand behind a gate or fence if line-siding, though many do step out onto the line both before during and after they've taken video or photos. It's quite scary on the mainline, particularly double track locations eg on the Welsh Marches. I guess the public's perceived risk is less on heritage lines though due to lower speeds advertised (but a train can't stop dead from 25mph).

 

[kje7812]

For the Severn Valley at least they used to do a lineside permit scheme. This has now been stopped however anyone who still had an in-date permit can use it lineside until it expires.

I'm fairly certain that enough time has elapsed that all of the permits from the old scheme have expired.
There are a limited number of official volunteer photographers but they have a VPN number on the back of their Hi-Vis. Everyone else shouldn't be there.

 

[paul1609]

(but a train can't stop dead from 25mph).

Indeed a few years back I was driving a tank loco and 5 MK1 coaches about 20 mph away from a station stop, coming around a curve I met 2 quad bikes on the track coming the other way. I immediately dropped the vacuum brake and fortunately they managed to get off the track and down the embankment in to the drainage ditch but they were still by coach 4 when the train stopped. Fortunately the operating manager was in the back coach and was able to call the police

 

[xotGD]

Always a bit annoying when you are taking a phot and someone bedecked in bright orange pops up right in the shot.

I can se that it is a source of revenue from people paying for permits, but there are always plenty of decent photographic locations on the right side of the fence.

 

[kje7812]

Always a bit annoying when you are taking a phot and someone bedecked in bright orange pops up right in the shot.

I can se that it is a source of revenue from people paying for permits, but there are always plenty of decent photographic locations on the right side of the fence.

Agreed on the later point, and often they are fairly common shots. Some of the most interesting photos are from unusual locations that require a bit of thought.

 

[PupCuff]

I must say I've never quite been able to fathom why enthusiasts trespassing to take photos from the lineside bother wearing high visibility vests. An orange vest isn't suddenly some kind of thing that makes you better than anyone else trespassing on the tracks and it certainly won't offer you any additional protection, aside from perhaps being the item of clothing that gets covered in mud if you fall over a signalling cable. If anything all it will do is cheese off other photographers who are enjoying their hobby legally.

 

[Bertiethebobby]

I'm fairly certain that enough time has elapsed that all of the permits from the old scheme have expired.
There are a limited number of official volunteer photographers but they have a VPN number on the back of their Hi-Vis. Everyone else shouldn't be there.

That is totally correct.

 

[nanstallon]

There are too many orange jackets. They seem to be a badge of machismo, worn even by platform staff.

 

[30907]

There are too many orange jackets. They seem to be a badge of machismo, worn even by platform staff.

....which is why the railway I volunteer on has a policy that staff only wear them when going trackside.

 

[peteb]

I'm fairly certain that enough time has elapsed that all of the permits from the old scheme have expired.
There are a limited number of official volunteer photographers but they have a VPN number on the back of their Hi-Vis. Everyone else shouldn't be there.

Yes agree, there were several lineside on Friday for this weekend's SVR steam gala, all with massive numbers on the back of their high viz vests. I saw no trespassers: everyone else was behind the boundary fences, which is good news.

 

[LowLevel]

Heritage railways are much better without the hordes of orange festooned photographers cluttering the place up for others. It was a period in time I hope is never recreated - the only ones who appear annoyed at the ending of such access are the photographers themselves!

 

[cactustwirly]

If you need to be on the tracks to get a good photo you are using the wrong lense!

Should be able to find a safe position behind a boundary fence and use a lense with a long focal length

 

[Sun Chariot]

If you need to be on the tracks to get a good photo you are using the wrong lense!

Should be able to find a safe position behind a boundary fence and use a lense with a long focal length

+1

Goodness knows why any photographer puts themselves in danger on heritage or National Rail lines

The only time I've stood in the four-foot, was an authorised and supervised photo gathering at Ribblehead Station, at a pre planned stop, on 1988's "Fellsman 2" tour (50024 + 050).
Even with the precautions in place, I found it disconcerting to be stood on a running line.

 

[nanstallon]

Heritage railways are much better without the hordes of orange festooned photographers cluttering the place up for others. It was a period in time I hope is never recreated - the only ones who appear annoyed at the ending of such access are the photographers themselves!

Totally agree. A lot of rather conceited, pretentious types.

 

[jupiter]

Most volunteers/staff are known to each other and anyone else, whether in orange or not, tend to stick out like a sore thumb.

You need a PTS to be lineside and a valid reason for being there. Photography is not a valid reason unless you are the official railway photographer.

Stay in a position of safety and enjoy your hobby sensibly.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I have never been a fan of Lineside Photo Permits, and am even more against them nowadays.

As a volunteer on a heritage line I am, technically, bound by our rule book and instructions at all time, on duty or not. This states you are only allowed lineside if it is necessary for the performance of your duties. Before qualifying in your chosen role everyone undergoes training and assessment, often for some time. Then each day you have to sign on duty and read that day's safety notices and operational instructions, and by signing on duty you are stating you have read them.

Yet any old Tom Dick and Harry can just rock up, pay a quid each year, then just wander willy nilly all over the place without any of the above.

Whilst the scheme at my railway has been suspended for a bit for new applicants due to a review, I understand it is reappearing soon.

I would do away with it, but seemingly the powers that be don't want to upset the (few vocal) members. It's not like it's a cash cow and by the sounds of it will create even more hassle for little if any return.

 

[Bertiethebobby]

I have never been a fan of Lineside Photo Permits, and am even more against them nowadays.

As a volunteer on a heritage line I am, technically, bound by our rule book and instructions at all time, on duty or not. This states you are only allowed lineside if it is necessary for the performance of your duties. Before qualifying in your chosen role everyone undergoes training and assessment, often for some time. Then each day you have to sign on duty and read that day's safety notices and operational instructions, and by signing on duty you are stating you have read them.

Yet any old Tom Dick and Harry can just rock up, pay a quid each year, then just wander willy nilly all over the place without any of the above.

Whilst the scheme at my railway has been suspended for a bit for new applicants due to a review, I understand it is reappearing soon.

I would do away with it, but seemingly the powers that be don't want to upset the (few vocal) members. It's not like it's a cash cow and by the sounds of it will create even more hassle for little if any return.

I'm a volunteer on a heritage line too and I've never been a fan of Photo permits either although the scheme on my railway has now stopped. It did seem strange that as a signalman I am permitted to stand a few feet from a moving A4 to exchange tokens but not allowed to go line side to take photos, however anyone who paid a few quid and did a PTS test was allowed line side. As you say, an unnecessary and unmanageable risk for little income for the railway.
My heritage line now only allows a few volunteer photographers who wear a hi viz with VP on the back and take photos on the understanding that they offer the photos to the railway for social media and publicity purposes etc.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Posts 121 and 117 here. No linesides were trampled over, for any of these shots.

Loco hauled around Havant

Last Saturday's appearance of B1 "Mayflower", buoyed my appetite for steam. This week has returned to "dismal" - so here are a few (recent or recent-ish) shots to lift the spirits.

www.railforums.co.uk

Arguably, being stood right next to a train, makes for a fairly dull and unimaginative photo / video.

 

[43096]

I have never been a fan of Lineside Photo Permits, and am even more against them nowadays.

As a volunteer on a heritage line I am, technically, bound by our rule book and instructions at all time, on duty or not. This states you are only allowed lineside if it is necessary for the performance of your duties. Before qualifying in your chosen role everyone undergoes training and assessment, often for some time. Then each day you have to sign on duty and read that day's safety notices and operational instructions, and by signing on duty you are stating you have read them.

Yet any old Tom Dick and Harry can just rock up, pay a quid each year, then just wander willy nilly all over the place without any of the above.

Whilst the scheme at my railway has been suspended for a bit for new applicants due to a review, I understand it is reappearing soon.

I would do away with it, but seemingly the powers that be don't want to upset the (few vocal) members. It's not like it's a cash cow and by the sounds of it will create even more hassle for little if any return.

I’ve never liked those permits and the self-entitled people that it attracts. Putting the context on it that you have makes it even more necessary that the issuing of photo permits stops.

 

[renegademaster]

When was the last time a lineside photographer was actually hit by a heritage train?

 

[LowLevel]

When was the last time a lineside photographer was actually hit by a heritage train?

There was one at the GCR about 15 years ago. Luckily he bounced off and only had superficial injuries. There have been plenty more trips and falls etc though.

 

[43096]

When was the last time a lineside photographer was actually hit by a heritage train?

There was one at the GCR about 15 years ago. Luckily he bounced off and only had superficial injuries. There have been plenty more trips and falls etc though.

Indeed. There’s far more lineside hazards than being hit by a train.