Hope Valley Disruption (29/04)

[142 007]

Huge delays of more than four hours on Saturday evening between Manchester and Sheffield, due to a safety inspection of the track, believed to be in Totley Tunnel.
Maybe a fair few stranded passengers.
After a search i believe this is one of the worst affected services, with a couple similar...

Realtime Trains | 1L16 1651 Liverpool Lime Street to Nottingham | 29/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1L16 1651 departure from Liverpool Lime Street to Nottingham on 29/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[175001]

Broken rail within Totley tunnel I believe.

Quite the walk to get it examined!

 

[endecotp]

After a search i believe this is one of the worst affected services, with a couple similar...

Realtime Trains | 1L16 1651 Liverpool Lime Street to Nottingham | 29/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1L16 1651 departure from Liverpool Lime Street to Nottingham on 29/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I hope that one was stopped at the platform in Hazel Grove and passengers were able to get off. I fear maybe not!

(90 late at Hazel Grove and 180 late at HG HL Jcn.)

 

[GardenRail]

Single Line Working was eventually, and I stress, EVENTUALLY put in place to get the stranded trains moving. A disgraceful example of how long it takes to set up a method of working when the railway goes wrong.

 

[dk1]

Huge delays of more than four hours on Saturday evening between Manchester and Sheffield, due to a safety inspection of the track, believed to be in Totley Tunnel.
Maybe a fair few stranded passengers.
After a search i believe this is one of the worst affected services, with a couple similar...

Realtime Trains | 1L16 1651 Liverpool Lime Street to Nottingham | 29/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1L16 1651 departure from Liverpool Lime Street to Nottingham on 29/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Nice bit of overtime for the traincrew if not they got out of their last bit & possibly booked off with pay Sunday if they had one.

 

[Moonshot]

Single Line Working was eventually, and I stress, EVENTUALLY put in place to get the stranded trains moving. A disgraceful example of how long it takes to set up a method of working when the railway goes wrong.

How long should it take?

 

[sportzbar]

Single Line Working was eventually, and I stress, EVENTUALLY put in place to get the stranded trains moving. A disgraceful example of how long it takes to set up a method of working when the railway goes wrong.

Let's look at the facts shall we? A broken rail in one of the longest railway tunnels in the UK. A safety inspection has to take place which means blocking both lines.

First of staff need to drive to the nearest access point. The staff then have to walk to the location of suspected broken rail over ballast from the nearest access point, which lets say is exactly half way in the tunnel, is possibly nigh on 1.5 miles maybe more. Then actually do a safety inspection of the track and site around the defect. After that there is the walk back to the access point. Next is the decision that single line working can be introduced, and so more staff are mobilised to the set this up at the required crossovers on the line, which means staff driving and accessing these locations.



So that's time driving to the nearest access point, time walking to the defect, time inspecting the defect, time walking back to the access point, time mobilising staff to locations where single line working can be set up.

All of this in a long tunnel in the middle of the Peak District where road access is not exactly at a premium. Granted if it had happened on the line between say Bolton and Salford Crescent which is easily accessed with one short tunnel section it would have been done quickly.

But due to the location of the defect, it what is probably the worst location for it to happen it took a lot longer. So do tell us how you would have gotten single line working up and running any quicker than the guys (& girls/other genders) who do it for a living could......

 

[Brubulus]

I was on the TPE service behind that that got stuck for about 2 hours, before they eventually reversed the service into Hathersage and said there would be a bus to Sheffield in about 40 mins. Ended up missing the last train to where I was going and spending a significant amount on a taxi.

 

[Gaelan]

Ended up missing the last train to where I was going and spending a significant amount on a taxi.

If you kept the receipt, I believe TPE should in principle reimburse you. (It should also be possible to ask station staff to call a taxi and pay for it in the first place.)

 

[Falcon1200]

But due to the location of the defect, it what is probably the worst location for it to happen it took a lot longer. So do tell us how you would have gotten single line working up and running any quicker than the guys (& girls/other genders) who do it for a living could......

All your points are very good ones. In addition, Single Line Working (SLW) could surely not have been introduced while staff were in the tunnel, and if there was a possibility of repairing the break quickly it might have been better to keep the line blockage until both lines could be re-opened, causing less overall disruption.

 

[Brubulus]

If you kept the receipt, I believe TPE should in principle reimburse you. (It should also be possible to ask station staff to call a taxi and pay for it in the first place.)

I was told to go as far as reasonably possible by rail before claiming for a taxi, which meant that I ended up at an station that was unstaffed so had to order a taxi myself. However it ended up being extraordinarily expensive so it'll be fun trying to get it back.

 

[James268]

Got caught up in this last night going from Piccadilly to Chesterfield. Was waiting for this service https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C77180/2023-04-29/detailed#allox_id=0
While it sat and sat at Oxford road we were all advised to go to Victoria and travel via Leeds which after a mad dash to Victoria I got the 2100 TPE and then another mad dash across Leeds to get to 2215 to Sheffield which I think was held a few minutes for others connecting. The problem was if I was going to miss the last train Sheffield > Chesterfield. Rather ironically at Sheffield I caught the 1955 EM service to Chesterfield that was scheduled an hour previous to the one I was intending on getting at Piccadilly that was running a whopping 4 hours late.

Got to Chesterfield 3 hours after I was aiming to be there.

While it was a pain in the arse, it's not the end of the world and these things happen!

 

[LowLevel]

The broken rail was only just inside the tunnel as it happens, not that that helps much. Getting competent staff on site in a rural area to sort it out on a Saturday night is generally the problem.

 

[InOban]

Would the broken rail have reported by the driver or detected by the track circuit? If the former, why does it need an NR crew to get to the location to confirm it?

 

[Elecman]

Because you need to know exactly where it is and whether it could be temporary clamped or need a full repair

 

[cin88]

Would the broken rail have reported by the driver or detected by the track circuit? If the former, why does it need an NR crew to get to the location to confirm it?

A track circuit showing occupied whilst clear could mean absolutely anything.

 

[zwk500]

Would the broken rail have reported by the driver or detected by the track circuit? If the former, why does it need an NR crew to get to the location to confirm it?

Being reported by the driver doesn't tell you if it's still passable at slow speed or with a temporary repair or if it needs an emergency closure and full replacement.

 

[LowLevel]

Would the broken rail have reported by the driver or detected by the track circuit? If the former, why does it need an NR crew to get to the location to confirm it?

Because hearing a bump or a bang while passing over a bit of track at 70 mph could be anything.

 

[InOban]

I understand, but I would have hoped that an experienced driver would have been able to able to give some information usable by track staff, so that they arrive on site with the equipment likely to be necessary. Silo working...... gives ammunition to the DfT and the Treasury.

 

[skyhigh]

Would the broken rail have reported by the driver or detected by the track circuit? If the former, why does it need an NR crew to get to the location to confirm it?

A driver reported a track defect. The subsequent driver who examined the line reported "potential subsidence" so the line was stopped pending inspection. There was a question over if the line could be opened to allow trains over at 5mph but the break was too close to a weld.

I understand, but I would have hoped that an experienced driver would have been able to able to give some information usable by track staff

Drivers really don't have the ability to provide much useful information in cases like these. Unit headlights are often pretty poor and drivers have little to no technical understanding of track. The best you can really hope for is a description of how it feels or sounds.

 

[Elecman]

I understand, but I would have hoped that an experienced driver would have been able to able to give some information usable by track staff, so that they arrive on site with the equipment likely to be necessary. Silo working...... gives ammunition to the DfT and the Treasury.

Rubbish you don’t know what your talking about

 

[zwk500]

I understand, but I would have hoped that an experienced driver would have been able to able to give some information usable by track staff, so that they arrive on site with the equipment likely to be necessary.

An experienced driver will give as much info as they can, but they're trained to drive the train not to repair the track.

Silo working...... gives ammunition to the DfT and the Treasury.

This isn't so much Silo working as division of labour. The operational railway is usually pretty good at helping each other out as far as their various roles will permit. If you want silo working, visit the planning offices, or indeed Whitehall itself!

 

[InOban]

Rubbish you don’t know what your talking about

I know. That's why I was asking the sort of question someone outside the 'coal face' might ask.

 

[yorkie]

I was on the TPE service behind that that got stuck for about 2 hours, before they eventually reversed the service into Hathersage and said there would be a bus to Sheffield in about 40 mins. Ended up missing the last train to where I was going and spending a significant amount on a taxi.

I would always advise ensuring the TOC arranges a taxi; they are not liable unless they refused to order one or they abandoned you without any way to speak to staff.

If you chose to do your own thing then I don't think you can hold TPE liable.

I advise creating a separate thread to discuss this dispute further; if you can post full details, we can advise.

For future reference I would also create a new thread at the time of the problem, as people could advise you in real-time. Also if you can't contact the TOC via Twitter to seek help, the chances are that another member would be able to assist.

 

[Brubulus]

I would always advise ensuring the TOC arranges a taxi; they are not liable unless they refused to order one or they abandoned you without any way to speak to staff.

If you chose to do your own thing then I don't think you can hold TPE liable.

I advise creating a separate thread to discuss this dispute further; if you can post full details, we can advise.

For future reference I would also create a new thread at the time of the problem, as people could advise you in real-time. Also if you can't contact the TOC via Twitter to seek help, the chances are that another member would be able to assist.

I called up TPE and they wanted me to talk to staff at Sheffield station, who told me to get as possible to my final destination by rail as possible (Retford). By the point I realised that Retford ticket office was shut, LNER customer support had shut for the night and I was onboard a Northern service so the guard couldn't do much however he did say to contact LNER (not TPE) who I then called today and seemed to indicate that they might be able to compensate having sent receipts etc by email to them. I booked the taxi station to station so I should be fine. In retrospect I should have gone to Doncaster with a staffed ticket office but I was aware that Retford was physically closer to my final destination.