Interesting poster

[wirralman]

My late father in law gave me this interesting poster dated 1911, does anyone know what a sand eroder was ?
What puzzles me is the name of the General Manager. Sir Frank Ree is listed as the General Manager in 1911, so who was Christian Johansen ? Why is his name on this poster and not Sir Frank Ree's ?
Any ideas ?

 

[stuving]

From the Northern Whig (Belfast) of 12th April 1911:


Frank Ree was appointed in January 1908, and died in post in February 1914, so it's hard to account for another name appearing in 1911. Nor did I find the name mentioned in a relevant context - such as a local manager of the L&NWR.

A sand eroder was put there to erode a sandbank! It was an alternative to dredging for keeping a channel open when it was silting up. Exactly what form it took is unclear, but I did find a reference to one (on the Parrett) that called it a boat. So I guess it was an old tug or similar anchored where the water its propeller (or paddle-wheels?) pushed out would take the unwanted sand away.

 

[Ashley Hill]

deleted,question answered.

 

[Rescars]

My late father in law gave me this interesting poster dated 1911, does anyone know what a sand eroder was ?
What puzzles me is the name of the General Manager. Sir Frank Ree is listed as the General Manager in 1911, so who was Christian Johansen ? Why is his name on this poster and not Sir Frank Ree's ?
Any ideas ?

Did the LNWR have only one General Manager? I wonder what job title was used for the boss of its marine operations and/or its docks and harbours.

 

[Wandering Pom]

Wikipedia lists only one LNWR General Manager at a time - I'm pretty sure that the role was equivalent to what would typically be a CEO these days.

As for the wrong name: I suspect, alas, that the poster is a modern reproduction, probably based on the newspaper notice in post #2. There's a typo ("bouy") in the poster text that's not present in the newspaper, the fonts don't seem quite right to me, and I'm fairly sure the LNWR did not use the motto "The Business and Pleasure Line".

 

[The exile]

Wikipedia lists only one LNWR General Manager at a time - I'm pretty sure that the role was equivalent to what would typically be a CEO these days.

As for the wrong name: I suspect, alas, that the poster is a modern reproduction, probably based on the newspaper notice in post #2. There's a typo ("bouy") in the poster text that's not present in the newspaper, the fonts don't seem quite right to me, and I'm fairly sure the LNWR did not use the motto "The Business and Pleasure Line".

The typeface used for “Euston Station@and date in the bottom left hand corner certainly doesn’t look right for 1911.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So possibly it's not 'Christian Johansen' and more likely is 'Hans Christian Andersen'?

 

[Gloster]

It is in awfully good condition for a 113 year-old. Perhaps it was produced by Christian Johansen as a joke or was a present from Christian Johansen’s son.

EDIT: To make clear, I think it is a recent reproduction, possibly as a present or a joke for a family member.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Seems that Sheffield Railwayana Auctions had a very similar item available for sale back in March 2002, which, however, apparently didn't sell. Approximate size of the item was said to have been 12½ inches x 18½ inches.

 

[contrex]

The typeface used for “Euston Station@and date in the bottom left hand corner certainly doesn’t look right for 1911.

I'm fairly sure McCorquodale and Company Limited would have known how to spell their own name. That whole line at the bottom looks wrong. Also real L. & N.W.R. poster headings had a full stop after the 'L' which this poster is lacking.

 

[6Gman]

From the Northern Whig (Belfast) of 12th April 1911:
View attachment 157880

Frank Ree was appointed in January 1908, and died in post in February 1914, so it's hard to account for another name appearing in 1911. Nor did I find the name mentioned in a relevant context - such as a local manager of the L&NWR.

A sand eroder was put there to erode a sandbank! It was an alternative to dredging for keeping a channel open when it was silting up. Exactly what form it took is unclear, but I did find a reference to one (on the Parrett) that called it a boat. So I guess it was an old tug or similar anchored where the water its propeller (or paddle-wheels?) pushed out would take the unwanted sand away.

A sand eroder appears to consist of two buoys placed over a sandbank. They are linked by a rope from which faggots (i.e. bunches of tree branches) are suspended so that they just reach the surface of the sandbank. The idea being that the movement of the faggots disturbs the surface allowing the tides to remove sand and prevent it settling. Given how rare they appear to have been (I can only find two references from 1910/11) I suspect they weren't very effective!

Like others, I believe the poster is a modern "fake" though probably without an intent to deceive. Just a quirky poster to which you can add the name of a friend or relative as a fun gift.

 

[stuving]

A sand eroder appears to consist of two buoys placed over a sandbank. They are linked by a rope from which faggots (i.e. bunches of tree branches) are suspended so that they just reach the surface of the sandbank. The idea being that the movement of the faggots disturbs the surface allowing the tides to remove sand and prevent it settling. Given how rare they appear to have been (I can only find two references from 1910/11) I suspect they weren't very effective!

I think this is beginning to make some sense, but the term sand eroder was applied to some very different things with that function.

At the same time as L&NWR's one (1910-11), the Mersey Docks & Harbour Board installed at least three of their own: two off Brunswick Dock and one at the NE corner of Askew Spit. I now have a description for one of those: from the Liverpool Journal of Commerce of 04 July 1910


So these faggots hung down to near the river bed - I wonder, does that mean they were weighted to overcome their buoyancy? But that does appear to define the usage on the Mersey at that date.

The one on the Parrett was discussed at a meeting of the Somerset Rivers Catchment Board, reported in the Taunton Courier, Bristol and Exeter Journal and Western Advertiser, 20 January 1932. The term sand eroder was here applied to a boat:


I have now found, on a more thorough reading, a description of both old and new boats:

Not the same thing at all, is it!

 

[wirralman]

Thanks for clearing that puzzle up. I didn't consider that it may be a novelty item. I don't think I like the poster so much now ! Here is another item given to me by my father in law (see pic). What are these? They measure 100cm by 130 and 4cm thick and look like they are made of some kind of perspex.
From a signal box perhaps? Can anyone tell me what they are?

 

[The exile]

Thanks for clearing that puzzle up. I didn't consider that it may be a novelty item. I don't think I like the poster so much now ! Here is another item given to me by my father in law (see pic). What are these? They measure 100cm by 130 and 4cm thick and look like they are made of some kind of perspex.
From a signal box perhaps? Can anyone tell me what they are?

Do you really mean they are 3ft x 4ft?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Do you really mean they are 3ft x 4ft?

Looking at the staple in the picture, which is probably standard at a 6mm (1/4 inch) length, the values are probably mm not cm.

 

[Wandering Pom]

Thanks for clearing that puzzle up. I didn't consider that it may be a novelty item. I don't think I like the poster so much now ! Here is another item given to me by my father in law (see pic). What are these? They measure 100cm by 130 and 4cm thick and look like they are made of some kind of perspex.
From a signal box perhaps? Can anyone tell me what they are?

They look very much like the plates fixed to levers in signal boxes, to indicate which signal, point, etc. the lever operates. I think these ones might have been cut down - typically there would be a large number above the text to identify the lever, and sometimes a series of smaller numbers below the text to show which other levers it was interlocked with.

 

[edwin_m]

Looking at the staple in the picture, which is probably standard at a 6mm (1/4 inch) length, the values are probably mm not cm.

Either that or the OP has a very large gauge model railway...

These are almost certainly plates to identify levers or possibly switches in a signal box.

 

[John Webb]

These are lever identification plates off either a Midland Railway 'Tumbler' or 'Tappet' interlocked lever frame or its later LMS 'tappet' locked frame.

They can be seen here in the preserved MR St Albans South signal box attached to the cast iron covers that protected the interlocking behind the levers - this frame is a 'Tumbler' frame and dates from 1906. (The interlocking was on the catch-handles, not the actual levers, so was compact enough to be placed behind the levers rather than in the downstairs 'Locking Room'.)

They are made from a material known as, I think, 'Traffolite' which was a sandwich of two plastics (not perspex) which could be engraved with a special machine through the top layer to reveal a contrasting layer underneath for permanent notices such as these.

 

[Rescars]

These are lever identification plates off either a Midland Railway 'Tumbler' or 'Tappet' interlocked lever frame or its later LMS 'tappet' locked frame.
View attachment 158125
They can be seen here in the preserved MR St Albans South signal box attached to the cast iron covers that protected the interlocking behind the levers - this frame is a 'Tumbler' frame and dates from 1906. (The interlocking was on the catch-handles, not the actual levers, so was compact enough to be placed behind the levers rather than in the downstairs 'Locking Room'.)

They are made from a material known as, I think, 'Traffolite' which was a sandwich of two plastics (not perspex) which could be engraved with a special machine through the top layer to reveal a contrasting layer underneath for permanent notices such as these.

Is Traffolite the same material that was used for all those little notices in Mark 1 coaches, such as "Not drinking water", "Press lever to flush", etc?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Do you really mean they are 3ft x 4ft?

They'd be about 25 feet tall if those wagons are anything to go by..............

 

[John Webb]

Is Traffolite the same material that was used for all those little notices in Mark 1 coaches, such as "Not drinking water", "Press lever to flush", etc?

Yes, I think it was. The workshop in the research station I worked at had one of these machines. They had several sets of master letters in different sizes. These were set up with needed messages, and a cutter mounted on one end of a variable (horizontal) pantograph system cut out the letters as the other end traced out the arranged master letters. They could provide labels for test equipment, even complete front panels for equipment we had designed. They had also cutters which could be used on metal besides plastic.

No doubt these days it would be done by some form of numerically-controlled machine!

 

[Rescars]

Yes, I think it was. The workshop in the research station I worked at had one of these machines. They had several sets of master letters in different sizes. These were set up with needed messages, and a cutter mounted on one end of a variable (horizontal) pantograph system cut out the letters as the other end traced out the arranged master letters. They could provide labels for test equipment, even complete front panels for equipment we had designed. They had also cutters which could be used on metal besides plastic.

No doubt these days it would be done by some form of numerically-controlled machine!

Googling suggests that Traffolyte is still with us. Sadly, I fear your pantograph system has been succeeded by a silicon chip.

 

[wirralman]

Sorry for the mix up with the measurement. They are 10cm by 13 cm.