Is taking time to progress in the railways the norm

[MJN11]

Currently I’ve worked at my role for a year being a gateline ambassador. Some days it’s alright some others it’s a little draining. Having seen some other fellow I’ve seen some dispatchers & TMs which have pushed me to apply for those roles in my current TOC.

Annoyingly the majority of them haven’t got anywhere apart from the first rejection (I was informed progression is quite a difficult step where I’m based) which has lead me to look elsewhere at different TOC where roles have appeared. However I’m not sure whether it’s a normal step to take or if it takes time so I was wondering is it better leaving for a different TOC role to progress or try staying and building up as I go in my current TOC

 

[skyhigh]

Blunt answer - within most TOCs there is no formal 'progression' from one role to another. There is no set time for how long it takes - I know people who have moved on almost immediately (one actually changed roles in the same TOC within the training course) and some never do. Being internal can sometimes be a hindrance too - if they can't fill your current role they won't release you and will give the vacancy to someone else.

Apply to internal jobs that take your fancy or apply to other TOCs, it's really up to you. If someone offers you the role you want, take it.

 

[GPR]

It’ll tend to be best to progress in the current company you work for.
Longer you are at the same company then sick pay conditions get better and job security for two examples.

However don’t get hung up on staying with the same company if you do want to progress.
There are 100s if not 1000s going for vacancies depending on wether it’s conducting, driving and maybe only 1, 2, 5 vacancy that needs filling so the odds are slim.
If you don’t look outside your employer then your are shortening your odds.

 

[PupCuff]

Progression can take time and perseverance and I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at other operators; it's generally well acknowledged that people will move around in the industry to progress and good managers will support this. Although there are still some of the 'same job for life' types in the industry, these days it is much more common to switch jobs after a year or two. (I'd get fed up being in the same job for four years let alone forty!)

I'd recommend trying to come up with a bit of a plan as to what direction you want to go in your career and then look to see if there are any development opportunities such as shadowing someone for a few hours, or any additional training courses you could do (though for front line roles, release is invariably difficult). You could always see if a colleague or manager is able to have a look over your CV, application personal statements etc to offer any feedback.

I would say just keep applying for things you see that you like and then take feedback where able if you aren't successful so you can tailor future applications a little better.

 

[Smelliott]

For me I started at another TOC, and managed to progress a little from a non-safety critical role to occasional safety critical work, but it became obvious that the best opportunities to get into driving were to be found elsewhere. I personally wouldn't hesitate to apply to other TOCs. Wish I'd done it sooner.

 

[Horizon22]

Normal is what you make of it; I know lots of people who have progessed internally, people who are happy where they are internally and people who have moved TOC regularly or rarely. It is up to you, but I wouldn't say there's any issue moving. At least externally it can't be "talked about" as much and your record will just be for one application.

Ultimately if you've got the right experiences, right skill set, right personality have a good interview and 'fit" the job, you will get hired. Best of luck.

 

[357]

No problem with moving around at all. Loyalty to one company means nothing in this industry.

If you're looking at a better opportunity somewhere else then you'd be a fool not to take it.

 

[GalaxyDog]

Experience means nothing in the railway industry, neither does loyalty. There are a few TOCs who will deliberatly impede interal progressions, so if yours is showing signs of being one of them, look at other TOCs.

 

[357]

Experience means nothing in the railway industry,

Yes and no. I guess it depends on the TOC.

The TOC who gave me my key frequently hired people with experience at other TOCs and internally at other safety critical grades, however then demanded they forget everything they have ever learnt!

 

[Smelliott]

Experience means nothing in the railway industry, neither does loyalty. There are a few TOCs who will deliberatly impede interal progressions, so if yours is showing signs of being one of them, look at other TOCs.

Think I was at one of these. Depressing!

 

[43066]

I was wondering is it better leaving for a different TOC role to progress or try staying and building up as I go in my current TOC

I’d apply for whichever jobs you want to elsewhere. As you’re realising loyalty means absolutely nothing and, as noted above, progression doesn’t really exist anymore in terms of gateline to TM, TM to driver etc. All are different jobs with different skill sets, so in each case you’ll be applying for a new job rather than being “promoted”.

Experience doesn’t count for much, as the nature of many front line railway jobs means you’re just doing the same thing over and over again (does ten years of experience really mean anything, when you’ve simply repeated the same year ten times?), and they’re also highly location specific, so you’ll require significant retraining to move. Hence TOCs will often prefer to hire people off the street rather than recruiting from within and having to backfill the vacant job.

 

[357]

Experience doesn’t count for much, as the nature of many front line railway jobs means you’re just doing the same thing over and over again (does ten years of experience really mean anything, when you’ve simply repeated the same year ten times?), and they’re also highly location specific, so you’ll require significant retraining to move. Hence TOCs will often prefer to hire people off the street rather than recruiting from within and having to backfill the vacant job.

I think this may vary.

As a driver I use knowledge and experience gained as a shunter and before that as a train dispatcher on a daily basis.

Having been a shunter is a boost of confidence when it all goes wrong on the mainline, as most traction related procedures I'd done in the depot.

 

[Roger1973]

I don't work on the railways, so can't offer specifics, but to expand on some of what's been said -

There are often benefits that come with longer service with the same organisation* - some organisations offer additional holiday once you've got X years' service in, for example, and (while i hope it doesn't happen to you) redundancy pay is calculated on number of years' continuous employment with that employer* not number of years in current post with that employer. and while procedures will vary from one employer to another, you're also not generally on 6 months' probation in a new role like a new starter is (in some places you would be returned to your previous level if you really don't suit the new role.)

* - and that would normally include service if you and your job get transferred from one employer to another, like when a TOC is re-franchised.

Some employers will advertise vacancies internally first - sometimes with first round being restricted to people whose current job is at risk of redundancy. There's no obligation on employers to advertise internally first, but it's also an urban myth that all vacancies have to be advertised externally.

Some employers will favour internal candidates for promotions, some organisations seem to prefer newcomers (I have seen adverts for station manager level jobs where it seems to say they want people with retail rather than railway backgrounds.)

Again, as has been said, there are few jobs where there's an automatic promotion / progression after X years' service - it depends on vacancies at the next level and then people applying for them (possibly against outside candidates.)

One thing that I've seen (in other jobs) is that internal candidates sometimes approach an application / interview with the attitude that they are entitled to that job, or make the mistake of assuming that the interviewer already knows what they do so they don't need to go in to detail. In smaller organisations, this might work, but if you're being scored against other / external candidates in a formal interview, you may score low points if you don't mention something because you assume they already know this.

 

[43066]

I think this may vary.

As a driver I use knowledge and experience gained as a shunter and before that as a train dispatcher on a daily basis.

Having been a shunter is a boost of confidence when it all goes wrong on the mainline, as most traction related procedures I'd done in the depot.

Fair points. I don’t mean to suggest that experience in other roles can’t ever be beneficial, I just don’t get the sense that TOCs are particularly bothered about it.

I’ve only ever been a driver and I can’t say I feel I’m any less capable at my job due to not having been a dispatcher first. Obviously I can’t say for sure, but objectively it doesn’t seem to make any difference when I look at who has a clean record and who doesn’t a few years down the line. Some “off the street” candidates struggle to get to grips with driving, but so do many internals.

 

[Urban Gateline]

It really varies a lot, sad to say sometimes who you know can come into it too. I moved TOC's 4 times so far and now my current employer is the same TOC I started in the Railway with, yet tried for years to progress to the role I'm in now to no avail, so sometimes it does pay off to move around if you can!