It it Only Me that Doesn't Like Doubled-Up Units?

[virgintrain1]

What happens then if a double Voyager with one TM, one Driver and one member of catering staff has to reverse en route away from a station, such as if the line ahead was blocked?

You can move the Driver and TM to the other sets so there's a safety critical member of staff in each unit but the catering staff won't have PTS or PPE so won't be able to switch sets meaning there won't be a member of onboard staff in each portion. Or, you can keep the Train Manager in the (old rear, now front portion) so there's a member of onboard staff in each unit but then there's no safety critical member of staff in the rear portion.

When running Voyager double sets and there is only 1 TM They prefer the TM in the back set but sometimes it is not always possible especially when only 1 caterer and they have dispatch at rear at one station then the set changes direction. So sometimes the caterer will work back set

 

[D365]

Bogie issues on third rail are exclusive to Mk3 coaching stock. Obviously if diverted to Waterloo the GWR 800s/802s will be operating on diesel.

 

[driver_m]

Has this actually happened?

Not that I can ever recall. Besides this would be an out of course situation anyway. Which could be simply fixed at the next stopping point.

 

[pompeyfan]

So would a 10 car 80X fit into Waterloo without blocking anything, would it be restricted to platform 19?

 

[Jonfun]

When running Voyager double sets and there is only 1 TM They prefer the TM in the back set but sometimes it is not always possible especially when only 1 caterer and they have dispatch at rear at one station then the set changes direction. So sometimes the caterer will work back set

That sounds more sensible. Certainly how it's done on other TOCs who operate voyager-esque traction.

 

[Wivenswold]

Sure - but I was just talking about the general trend of moving to a 5/10 car railway and the flaws of it.

And in particular in Essex where GA appear to be replacing 8 car diagrams with 5 cars. Sure there's nearly the same amount of seats but the joy of travelling in 8 cars is that you're not squashed in off-peak. Cram everyone in 5 cars on matchdays or the late night vomit comets and journeys will become downright unpleasant.

 

[TheAdelante]

To be fair I'd like the train to be twice as long. I can cope if that's done using a second unit, but really I prefer one long train

I agree. Looks neater.

 

[driver_m]

That sounds more sensible. Certainly how it's done on other TOCs who operate voyager-esque traction.

You wouldn't say that it was sensible, if there wasn't a Safety Crit member of staff in the back set and it needed evacuating. Besides. A number of our doubled up services will have 2 TM's on anyway, particularly the ones joining and splitting. They used to have two drivers too for contingency reasons but that went a while ago. I don't sign North Of Preston so I don't know of any issues up there, but there's guidance at all our platforms for where a TM should despatch from for sighting and AFAIK the TM despatches from the back set. Units will get locked out if no visible staff are onboard.

 

[F Great Eastern]

And in particular in Essex where GA appear to be replacing 8 car diagrams with 5 cars. Sure there's nearly the same amount of seats but the joy of travelling in 8 cars is that you're not squashed in off-peak. Cram everyone in 5 cars on matchdays or the late night vomit comets and journeys will become downright unpleasant.

Indeed, since you're effectively going from a 160m unit to a 115m unit.

Sure you gain a little bit of seating from removing a couple of cabs, but you're effectively going to have more high density seating and a large reduction of standing space as well which is going to prove a nightmare on some services.

Also you have to take into consideration that a short formed set or unit shortages will now cause a much bigger loss in capacity than it does now.

 

[AgentSmith]

I have heard that EMT frequently have two train managers on mainline services formed of coupled units.

Possibly TMs, possibly hosts. Coupled units generally run in the peak flow direction, so they'll be needed later on when they split.

 

[sw1ller]

...

I suppose it goes the other way, with some gangwayed trains, which are rarely, if ever coupled to another unit. Yes, I get that at rush hour, additional vehicles can be added to a consist but in practice, does that really happen?

Just not sure I get it.

Sit at Shrewsbury for an hour and you’ll see it happen a few times. 158 4 car from Aber drops into P4, splits. Rear stays put and the fron goes to Chester/Holyhead. As soon as it’s departed, a 2 car unit that’s been sat outside for 5 minutes with a fair few tutting passengers connects to the remaining 2 cars from aber and trot off to Birmingham.

Bit of a pain with ERTMS as if you get one that wants to have a dicky fit, you’re not gonna make the 4 minutes turnaround time you have to get it done.

 

[jopsuk]

Networkers, 321s and 360s often run as three unit trains. Even if they had or have a guard, that means there's always a unit with no member of staff in the formation

 

[duffield]

My pet peeve with doubling up (on Crosscountry particularly) is that when boarding you don't necessarily get enough time to check which half has got free seats, so you can end up standing on one half of the train when there are plenty of free seats in the other half.

 

[MG11]

My pet peeve with doubling up (on Crosscountry particularly) is that when boarding you don't necessarily get enough time to check which half has got free seats, so you can end up standing on one half of the train when there are plenty of free seats in the other half.

Many dot matrix screens on the plaftorms show how full each coach is, so you know which coach to head for.

 

[duffield]

Many dot matrix screens on the plaftorms show how full each coach is, so you know which coach to head for.

I've seen this (on Thameslink for example) but not on Crosscountry though.

 

[Master29]

Interesting! I thought they were all bigguns!

You are probably thinking about when they were operated by Midland Mainline in the mid noughties. There were 8 car units then I believe (someone correct if wrong). They have been since rejigged obviously into either 4,5 or 7 car units with EMT.

 

[jimm]

You are probably thinking about when they were operated by Midland Mainline in the mid noughties. There were 8 car units then I believe (someone correct if wrong). They have been since rejigged obviously into either 4,5 or 7 car units with EMT.

The initial Class 222 order for EMT was made up of a mix of 4-car and 9-car trains.

 

[boing_uk]

but really I prefer one long train

Do you like to run up and down it or something?

 

[jopsuk]

You are probably thinking about when they were operated by Midland Mainline in the mid noughties. There were 8 car units then I believe (someone correct if wrong). They have been since rejigged obviously into either 4,5 or 7 car units with EMT.

They were delivered as:
Midland Mainline
Seven 9-car units
Sixteen 4-car units

Hull Trains
Four 4-car units

They are now
East Midlands Trains
Six 7-car units
Seventeen 5-car units
Four 4-car units

 

[Hadders]

Great Northern manage to operate three 4 car units together (i.e 12 car) with just a driver on board and have done so for years.

 

[dk1]

When Anglia ran two & three unit 170s together on the GEML there was no ruling on where the guard should be. Catering was hit/miss if all buffets where crewed & often all members of staff would be in the leading unit. Guards used to swap at stations to do full revenue checks.

 

[Randomer]

Many dot matrix screens on the platforms show how full each coach is, so you know which coach to head for.

At which station Crosscountry serve does that happen, I've only ever seen it round London with the newer stock? Never seen it anywhere on the Crosscountry SW to NE routes (not boarded at Birmingham New Street since the refurb though).

The doubling of units on Crosscountry is great in terms of not being crammed into a 4 car voyager but not very helpful for the less experienced travellers who almost universally will try for there seat reservation even if the front unit is full and standing. Unless they have introduced reservations on the rear sets?

 

[D365]

It might be my memory letting me down, but I'm sure I have seen said dot matrix indicators for CrossCountry trains in Yorkshire.

 

[Ianigsy]

I believe (according to some Northern drivers) that Murphy's Law of Class 153s states that if two are coupled together, the small cabs will be on the outside.

 

[northwichcat]

I think it looks a bit untidy to have very different looking trains doubled up e.g. a Pacer and a Sprinter or a Sprinter and a Turbostar but enough capacity is more important than looking well presented.

It's less good when you've got non-corridor connected units doubled up on a regular basis and a single catering trolley switching between the units or busy services where the two sets don't empty out/fill up evenly and then passengers can't move along to the more empty area of the train.

 

[takno]

Do you like to run up and down it or something?

Yes. If I wanted to spend time in a constrained vehicle where I can't go anywhere I'd fly.

 

[dk1]

I believe (according to some Northern drivers) that Murphy's Law of Class 153s states that if two are coupled together, the small cabs will be on the outside.

Haha that is so true. Blasted things.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure I read on here that you get problems sometimes coupling them small cab to small cab so they are deliberately that way round, rubbish as it is for the driver.

 

[dk1]

I'm sure I read on here that you get problems sometimes coupling them small cab to small cab so they are deliberately that way round, rubbish as it is for the driver.

Not true at all. They just go together whatever way they meet.