• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
919
Location
Edinburgh
Hefty delays on 573 on the 72 this morning, I'm told it's very busy so likely nowhere near enough time allocated for boarding passengers.
It's always a good sign for that though, not ideal that it's heavily delayed but it's great that the service has the passengers already.

Slight edit: Just seen it left on-time at Fauldhouse and now it's 30 minutes late and it has just entered Livingston, that's worse than I thought it would be.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,188
That was Richard Hall and his management, wasn't it?
And if they didn’t want it, they could have pulled out with the new management. When they cut back last year they could fully have pulled out if they didn’t want it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,188
It's always a good sign for that though, not ideal that it's heavily delayed but it's great that the service has the passengers already.

Slight edit: Just seen it left on-time at Fauldhouse and now it's 30 minutes late and it has just entered Livingston, that's worse than I thought it would be.
What else is expected when 1 bus per hour is operating on a route with an extremely high usage? Delays are to be expected on the 72 and 74 every day you cant be surprised.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
919
Location
Edinburgh
Delays are to be expected on the 72 and 74 every day you cant be surprised
I didn't state being "surprised" though? I was just stating that it's a good sign with the passenger use but the delays being worse than I thought. I thought Lothian would've predicted high passenger use ahead of the timetable scheduling but that's clearly not the case unfortunately.

Another thing I forgot to add, at least the passengers actually have a bus service, and it isn't being cancelled, so it's instantly more reliable.
 
Last edited:

buslad1988

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2018
Messages
365
I didn't state being "surprised" though? I was just stating that it's a good sign with the passenger use but the delays being worse than I thought. I thought Lothian would've predicted high passenger use ahead of the timetable scheduling but that's clearly not the case unfortunately.

Another thing I forgot to add, at least the passengers actually have a bus service, and it isn't being cancelled, so it's instantly more reliable.
They never factor loading times in - not even on city services. Hence why services often run so late! They squeeze as much out of the driver/bus as possible; it’s gotten worse in recent years.
 
Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
919
Location
Edinburgh
They never factor loading times in - not even on city services. Hence why services often run so late! They squeeze as much out of the driver/bus as possible; it’s gotten worse in recent years.
I think it's because they do timings in a not in service bus or a van then they do the training. The timing points need to be exaggerated a lot more in order to maintain it. Some routes like the western end of the 2 have the opposite problem though.
 

buslad1988

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2018
Messages
365
I think it's because they do timings in a not in service bus or a van then they do the training. The timing points need to be exaggerated a lot more in order to maintain it. Some routes like the western end of the 2 have the opposite problem though.
They also need to do a public campaign teaching people how to actually board a bus! Watching people aimlessly wonder on then look for passes, bank cards etc. Some folk have absolutely no concept of time - and it’s those same people who’ll then go on twitter etc and complain about buses being late. Laughable really!

Even getting off people are often in no hurry what so ever. And this is Edinburgh - a hustle and bustle big city; so goodness knows what it’s like in the regional provinces!
 
Joined
29 Nov 2018
Messages
628
They never factor loading times in - not even on city services. Hence why services often run so late! They squeeze as much out of the driver/bus as possible; it’s gotten worse in recent years.
There seems an expectation that drivers will act like inspectors these days and I think the high tech bus passes and phone/card payment methods have quite a lot to answer for here. It takes ages for passengers to scan their entitlement documents or whatever they use for payment in addition to telling the driver where they want to go (at least on the country routes).
In the past many passengers would just flash a random photo or drop a few washers into the hopper and move on.
However I'd like to think Lothian are aware of these issues and working on some practical solutions, as it ultimately affects their business.
 

computerSaysNo

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
1,196
There seems an expectation that drivers will act like inspectors these days and I think the high tech bus passes and phone/card payment methods have quite a lot to answer for here. It takes ages for passengers to scan their entitlement documents or whatever they use for payment in addition to telling the driver where they want to go (at least on the country routes).
In the past many passengers would just flash a random photo or drop a few washers into the hopper and move on.
However I'd like to think Lothian are aware of these issues and working on some practical solutions, as it ultimately affects their business.
I think they'd do well if they could speed up the ticket machine accepting contactless: it only takes maybe 5 seconds to go through and then beeps, but 5 seconds per passenger per stop adds up. They could also add a light to show that it's been accepted, sometimes it's hard to hear the machine go beep and then you have to wait for the driver to wave you on.
 

LiviCrazy

Member
Joined
6 Oct 2018
Messages
325
There seems an expectation that drivers will act like inspectors these days and I think the high tech bus passes and phone/card payment methods have quite a lot to answer for here. It takes ages for passengers to scan their entitlement documents or whatever they use for payment in addition to telling the driver where they want to go (at least on the country routes).
In the past many passengers would just flash a random photo or drop a few washers into the hopper and move on.
However I'd like to think Lothian are aware of these issues and working on some practical solutions, as it ultimately affects their business.
Was thinking about this yesterday when on an x27. Commuter Journeys on old First/McGills always seemed slightly faster apart from on a Monday, I think that may have been due to the fact everyone bought their weekly ticket on a Monday and the rest of the week it was just shown/scanned. Whereas the TapTapCap is more widely used so people are getting on a staying their journey for every journey now. Thats just something I’ve wondered, not sure if that is the case.
 

Nawm8

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2019
Messages
35
I think they'd do well if they could speed up the ticket machine accepting contactless: it only takes maybe 5 seconds to go through and then beeps, but 5 seconds per passenger per stop adds up. They could also add a light to show that it's been accepted, sometimes it's hard to hear the machine go beep and then you have to wait for the driver to wave you on.
The issue lies with the passenger. The actual tap goes through in a second, and the system can process multiple separate taps even if it doesn't beep immediately.

Passengers who don't have their fare device ready and spend 5/10 seconds struggling to unlock that device or the classic run for bus then bag rummage is what causes hold-ups.

I would also say that u-22 concession cards can take a considerable amount of time to read on the Wayfarer due to them being a multi-use card, for school libraries and canteens etc.,

I feel the Wayfarer system Lothian are using has probably been pushed to its limit, as its not the most stable system as used from my point of view as a Driver.

*Wayfarer - Ticket machine used by Lothian.
 

computerSaysNo

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
1,196
After discussing overcrowding on the X7 recently, there's a double decker on a part-route X7 to Haddington just now. If it's on time it looks to be forming the 1717 but I can't tell if this is in addition to or instead of the regular 1717 to Dunbar.
 

Bus9120UK

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2019
Messages
1,440
Location
Edinburgh
After discussing overcrowding on the X7 recently, there's a double decker on a part-route X7 to Haddington just now. If it's on time it looks to be forming the 1717 but I can't tell if this is in addition to or instead of the regular 1717 to Dunbar.
An addition - the single decker 17:17 to Dunbar is running, albeit late having come from Marine.
 
Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
919
Location
Edinburgh
I'm not keen on the amount of Ex-Londons on the X40 recently, I've heard they've not faired well on the City Bypass so it's just an illogical allocation.
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,188
I'm not keen on the amount of Ex-Londons on the X40 recently, I've heard they've not faired well on the City Bypass so it's just an illogical allocation.
Heard being the operative word. Ive had 3 on the X40 and they’ve coped just aswell as the native B9TLs.
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,188
I always thought that these do well on fast routes. They seem to speed along on the X18, X27 and X28.
They’re good at picking up speed, although that perk only seems to apply to a handfull of them as some are slowing down with age.
 

computerSaysNo

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
1,196
I'm not keen on the amount of Ex-Londons on the X40 recently, I've heard they've not faired well on the City Bypass so it's just an illogical allocation.
Heard being the operative word. Ive had 3 on the X40 and they’ve coped just aswell as the native B9TLs.
I always thought that these do well on fast routes. They seem to speed along on the X18, X27 and X28.
They’re good at picking up speed, although that perk only seems to apply to a handfull of them as some are slowing down with age.
What are the differences between the native B9s and the ex-London buses mechanically in a practical sense anyway? I thought only the gearboxes were different? What practical difference is there between the two gearboxes?

I've noticed some of the Lothian Country ex-London and even some of the ex-Lothian Country (now with City) ex-London buses are sounding a bit rough. I feel like the X27 and X28 are quite mechanically demanding routes with quite a bit of high speed, high acceleration and uphill demands on them.
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,194
Location
Edinburgh
What are the differences between the native B9s and the ex-London buses mechanically in a practical sense anyway? I thought only the gearboxes were different? What practical difference is there between the two gearboxes?

I've noticed some of the Lothian Country ex-London and even some of the ex-Lothian Country (now with City) ex-London buses are sounding a bit rough. I feel like the X27 and X28 are quite mechanically demanding routes with quite a bit of high speed, high acceleration and uphill demands on them.
I’m not sure, as a passenger, I always feel like the native B9s seem like a slower journey than with the ex London ones when on the X27/X28 in particular anyway. It could be because they are longer in length and doesn’t feel so speedy. I would be interested to know the differences too.
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,188
What are the differences between the native B9s and the ex-London buses mechanically in a practical sense anyway? I thought only the gearboxes were different? What practical difference is there between the two gearboxes?
Mechanically its just the gearboxes. The Ex London having a 6 speed ZF which has a lower rev limit before going up a gear hence why they have faster acceleration and get to speed quicker than the 5 speed Voith in the native ones.
I've noticed some of the Lothian Country ex-London and even some of the ex-Lothian Country (now with City) ex-London buses are sounding a bit rough. I feel like the X27 and X28 are quite mechanically demanding routes with quite a bit of high speed, high acceleration and uphill demands on them.
Definatley those routes will be taking their toll on them, it doesnt help its a contrast from a 21 hour city driving day in London that they spent 7 years doing
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,550
Location
Aberdeen
Mechanically its just the gearboxes. The Ex London having a 6 speed ZF which has a lower rev limit before going up a gear hence why they have faster acceleration and get to speed quicker than the 5 speed Voith in the native ones.
The Voith gearboxes in the B9TLs are are 4 speed. There also isn't a "lower rev limit", the ZF Ecolife has higher gear ratios than the Voith DIWA, hence why the ZF examples have better acceleration and go through the gears quicker.
 

Observer

Member
Joined
3 Nov 2014
Messages
711
How long until duplicates get put on the new Country routes? If Lothian would even entertain on the idea?
 

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,194
How long until duplicates get put on the new Country routes? If Lothian would even entertain on the idea?

When it gets more drivers. However most people know this network wasn't good enough to cope with the basic demands.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TheEastCoaster

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
1,239
So I was in Livingston today and popped out and took notice of the new services, I haven't been on any of them myself yet personally but judging from what I've seen, it seems they are attracting passengers, the X27/X28 is seeing more busy demand and the 72 looked pretty packed coming from Kirkliston.
 

Top