M6 Toll

[Bald Rick]

Didn’t think there were any proposals for M6 J15-J16…

 

[Cloud Strife]

But yes, the whole point of the project was to relieve the M6 though north Birmingham, which to a certain extent it has failed to do. I often wonder if the costs of upgrading J4-J11 of the M6 to Smart motorway standards had been spent on buying out the owners of M6 toll instead, whether that would have avoided the need to do it.

I strongly suspect that if they had done it, then both the M6 Toll and the original M6 would now be overloaded. There might have been a good call to make the M6 Toll free and then to toll the M6 from the M5 to the M42 however, at least during peak times.

Of course precisely that was proposed with Western Orbital Road.

I think it's a motorway that really should be built. Combine it with a peak toll for traffic going on the M6 through Birmingham from the M5 junction to the M42 junction, and it would significantly unload the M6 through the busiest section, as traffic could choose the cheaper M6 Toll or the longer free section around the west and south.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It's a very nice road, very smooth to drive and often empty, as a recently qualified driver I haven't yet been on the normal M6 through the outskirts of Brum, on my three trips so far from London to the NW the M6 has always had some blockage according to radio traffic reports.

I would say it's worth it, with the caveat that the toll goes on company expenses though! And Norton Canes is a good services to stop at when needing a break between London and, e.g. Wigan or Preston.

As always, YMMV.

Yes I have used it a few times between Preston and Milton Keynes. Beats going through Birmingham in nose to traffic.

 

[Basil Jet]

I think in all fairness, the problem with the M6 is that it's simply overcrowded, and there isn't an easy solution. Perhaps if the M5 was extended to the west of the West Midlands conurbation to the M6 around the M6 Toll junction, then the M6-M5-M40 route towards London might take some of the pressure off the M6 through Birmingham.

I think if they'd underpassed the last few roundabouts between the Derby Southern Bypass and the Stoke M6 junction, all the traffic from the northwest to the southeast could avoid Birmingham completely, for a fraction of the cost and disruption of building the M6 Toll.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I think if they'd underpassed the last few roundabouts between the Derby Southern Bypass and the Stoke M6 junction, all the traffic from the northwest to the southeast could avoid Birmingham completely, for a fraction of the cost and disruption of building the M6 Toll.

Yeah, there's a strong argument for doing exactly that, although one issue might be the M6 between there and the A556. The existing bit of motorway between the two is already very busy, and building a new motorway through Cheshire is largely a no-go unless it was right next to the existing M6.

Having said that, is the A50 really suitable for long distance traffic through Stoke? There's no hard shoulder, a lot of junctions and a 50mph limit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having said that, is the A50 really suitable for long distance traffic through Stoke? There's no hard shoulder, a lot of junctions and a 50mph limit.

It's fine, yes. Pre M6 Toll that was my preferred route from the north west to the south east, must have done it hundreds of times. The 50mph section is relatively short.

 

[The Planner]

I think if they'd underpassed the last few roundabouts between the Derby Southern Bypass and the Stoke M6 junction, all the traffic from the northwest to the southeast could avoid Birmingham completely, for a fraction of the cost and disruption of building the M6 Toll.

Apart from tieing in at either end, it was pretty much greenfield. Sending everyone via the A500 would be a nightmare. What do people from the M40 direction do?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apart from tieing in at either end, it was pretty much greenfield. Sending everyone via the A500 would be a nightmare. What do people from the M40 direction do?

The M40 is really an alternative to the Toll. You'd not use both except for a very small number of journeys.

 

[The Planner]

The M40 is really an alternative to the Toll. You'd not use both except for a very small number of journeys.

So if you were coming from the south west or west side of London, you wouldn't use the M40/42/6Toll?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So if you were coming from the south west or west side of London, you wouldn't use the M40/42/6Toll?

To go where?

 

[The Planner]

To go where?

Anywhere along the M6 corridor north of Brum.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anywhere along the M6 corridor north of Brum.

Wouldn't have occurred to me to do that, but it doesn't look a terrible idea. I have once or twice gone Toll-M40-MK when the M1 has been congested, but for some reason it always felt a bit of an awkward journey.

 

[Vinnym]

The Government was really clever in creating the M6 Toll.

Because it cost them nothing and, by diverting some traffic from the M6, postponed the need for capacity improvements on the section through Birmingham, saving them money.

Was that the real motive? - our am I being cynical again?.

And the government pocket 20% of tolls paid in VAT.

 

[jfollows]

Wouldn't have occurred to me to do that, but it doesn't look a terrible idea. I have once or twice gone Toll-M40-MK when the M1 has been congested, but for some reason it always felt a bit of an awkward journey.

I used to have to get from IBM Warwick to Manchester and used M40-M42-M6 toll-M6 all the time, and I guess my familiarity led me to use this route even when starting from W London too. Prior to the M6 toll we had to dissuade our southern colleagues from arranging meetings in Warwick because they simply didn't understand (as is their wont) the dreadful road conditions for those of us who live in the North - "it's really easy to get to Warwick and it's half way" they'd say. Right.
The M6 toll helped a lot. Then I left IBM.
Prior to the M6 toll, when I lived in central Manchester, I generally went over Woodhead to the M1 if I needed to get somewhere "south". The route over Woodhead is pretty and not too bad if using it contrary to the main traffic flow towards Manchester in the mornings and away from Manchester in the evenings.
Anyway, I'd not think twice about M40-M42-M6 toll-M6 today. But I have little need to drive long distances any more, which is nice.

 

[PTR 444]

The M40 is really an alternative to the Toll. You'd not use both except for a very small number of journeys.

You’re wrong there I’m afraid. The M40/M42/M6 Toll is the most obvious driving route from the South Coast to the North West.

 

[Meerkat]

It’s M40/M42/M6 Toll every time. Which other way would you go?!
I have once bottled it and used the M6 (not toll) due to being misled by my sat nav - because the toll road is slightly longer (and you have to stop for the toll booth) then if there are no disruptions on the M6 it knows about it wants to send me that way, and I worry it means the Toll Road has a problem. Of course it assumes you will only do 70mph on the Toll Road which off peak is almost unheard of!

 

[CarltonA]

The M40/M42/M6 Toll is the most obvious driving route from the South Coast to the North West.

Indeed, and from my part of the Thames Valley the M40 is the preferred route to the Midlands. I had a good journey last week by the M6 Toll and managed to negotiate the toll booths without much difficulty.

I travel to Lichfield once a year and have tried various routes such as M40/A361/A5 or even finding my way onto Fosse Way via Southam then A5 but only if I had plenty of time to spare. The obvious route has been M40/M42/A5 but I don't enjoy driving on the A5 in the Tamworth area. The Toll is clearly the best route (even with the awful roadworks on the M42) so far, except for having to cough up.

 

[Hadders]

I used the M6 Toll today on my way to a meeting in Staffordshire. £8.60 card only payments accepted. No phone payments accepted either (presumably because using a phone when in charge of a vehicle is illegal).

I knew all of this so was prepared but there was no signage stating physical card payments only until you're close to the Toll Boothe. Imagine the meltdown on here if the railway acted in this way....

Coming back I took 'route classic', took about 10 minutes longer due to heavy traffic around Spaghetti Junction.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used the M6 Toll today on my way to a meeting in Staffordshire. £8.60 card only payments accepted. No phone payments accepted either (presumably because using a phone when in charge of a vehicle is illegal).

Since the last change in the law on the matter it's not any more in specific circumstances, one of which is making a contactless payment. However the terminals don't work with Apple/Google Pay as they're quite old. They are in the process of replacing them so they do, the new ones are there covered over.

TBH I'm surprised they don't remove the booths and go for online only payment, as a lot of other tolls have. They're going to introduce that as an option but not remove the booths.

 

[Bald Rick]

Coming back I took 'route classic', took about 10 minutes longer due to heavy traffic around Spaghetti Junction.

“M6 Classique”

That it was only 10 mins longer with heavy traffic shows how when there is light traffic (which is the majority of the time) it is not worth taking the toll.

 

[Bletchleyite]

“M6 Classique”

That it was only 10 mins longer with heavy traffic shows how when there is light traffic (which is the majority of the time) it is not worth taking the toll.

The Toll I find takes enough traffic off the central Birmingham bit of the "Classique" that it's rarely that bad these days, even in the peaks. However I've often just considered it an admission fee to the very pleasant service station at Norton Canes if intending to stop for food.

The original M6 is slightly shorter so can in theory be quicker (assuming driving at the speed limit).

 

[Bald Rick]

The original M6 is slightly shorter so can in theory be quicker (assuming driving at the speed limit)

Except the speed limit is normally lower via the old road, either because of roadworks (temporary of course, but there have been some on that section for a long time with more to come), or because of the 60 for environmental reasons between 6 and 7.

But he, there’s not much in it. Certainly not £8.60’s worth for the majority of the time.

 

[Meerkat]

The Toll I find takes enough traffic off the central Birmingham bit of the "Classique" that it's rarely that bad these days, even in the peaks. However I've often just considered it an admission fee to the very pleasant service station at Norton Canes if intending to stop for food.

The original M6 is slightly shorter so can in theory be quicker (assuming driving at the speed limit).

The Toll is smoother, emptier so more relaxing, and you don’t have to look at Birmingham. The classic route always seems to have speed limits, however busy it is.
what do you like about Norton Canes? I do use it as it’s in the right place (bladder capacity wise!) but it’s a pain to get in and out of and laid out badly so it gets congested inside. Also IIRC it doesn’t have an M&S nor Waitrose. On the plus side it doesn’t have a Subway so it doesn’t have that awful stench.

Basically the Toll is a relaxing bliss between the horrible Staffordshire M6 and M42/M40 (second worse lane hogging after lower M1).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Toll is smoother, emptier so more relaxing, and you don’t have to look at Birmingham. The classic route always seems to have speed limits, however busy it is.

True on most of those. I rather like the interest of the industrial background of Birmingham to be honest.

what do you like about Norton Canes? I do use it as it’s in the right place (bladder capacity wise!) but it’s a pain to get in and out of and laid out badly so it gets congested inside. Also IIRC it doesn’t have an M&S nor Waitrose. On the plus side it doesn’t have a Subway so it doesn’t have that awful stench.

I always go past the congested bit and park at the very far end in the "overflow" bit which has its own exit back to the "ring road" (the one-way barrier lifts when you drive up to it on exit). That avoids most of it.

It has a Maccies, a Leon, and a Costa (far better than the Bucks). It could I agree do with a Marks instead of the rubbishy Spar. It's also roughly in the right place for stopping for dinner if doing a long distance evening trip from MK, but is nicer than the options around Birmingham on the "classic" route. Rugby would be but it's too far south.

 

[bramling]

I used the M6 Toll today on my way to a meeting in Staffordshire. £8.60 card only payments accepted. No phone payments accepted either (presumably because using a phone when in charge of a vehicle is illegal).

I knew all of this so was prepared but there was no signage stating physical card payments only until you're close to the Toll Boothe. Imagine the meltdown on here if the railway acted in this way....

Coming back I took 'route classic', took about 10 minutes longer due to heavy traffic around Spaghetti Junction.

Must admit, every time I’ve *not* taken the toll road I have regretted it. Whilst it’s possible to hit lucky with the old route and have a vaguely tolerable journey, sooner or later luck runs out good and proper and you get stuck in something awful. I’ve had one too many horrendous experiences, even in the middle of the night, to not use the toll. Of course, one can still get stuck on the sections at either end of the toll road.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Must admit, every time I’ve *not* taken the toll road I have regretted it. Whilst it’s possible to hit lucky with the old route and have a vaguely tolerable journey, sooner or later luck runs out good and proper and you get stuck in something awful. I’ve had one too many horrendous experiences, even in the middle of the night, to not use the toll. Of course, one can still get stuck on the sections at either end of the toll road.

Middle of the night is often worst on motorways generally - you think you'll get a clear run then there's a long stretch of roadworks with it reduced down to one lane.

 

[DelW]

I regularly drive between the Home Counties and Fife.

Going north I'm still relatively fresh nearing Birmingham, so unless there are reports of congestion on the original route, I tend to go that way. Even then the congestion and slowings around the M5 junction can be hard work.

Coming south I'll have been driving for around 5 hours (plus at least one stop), and if I've left my hotel around 10am, it'll be nearing the afternoon peak time. Using the toll allows me 20 minutes or so almost all on the cruise control with an empty lane ahead. That's almost as good as another break, in comparison with staring ahead for brake lights and driving with my foot ready to dive across to the brake pedal.

 

[The Planner]

Personally I won't consider the Toll unless Google or Waze is suggesting there is at least 10-15 minutes saving. I dont think the £8.60 is worth it otherwise. The amount of cars that take no notice of the air quality 60 between Spaghetti and Perry Barr is telling, as well as the lack of speed cameras between 4A and 9.

 

[Bald Rick]

as well as the lack of speed cameras between 4A and 9.

There are cameras!

 

[Lockwood]

I've driven it in my car a few times. I think the time saving is lost by stopping at Norton Canes for me.

I don't have much call to head oop norf any more now, but the general rule of thumb I adopted was that if I was paying I would take the M6, if someone else was paying or I was in a toll exempt vehicle, take the Toll.