Malaysian Airlines MH017 lost near Ukraine / Russia border

[starrymarkb]

A Malaysian airliner reportedly with 295 people on board has crashed in Ukraine near the Russian border, on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

Malaysia Airlines said it had lost contact with Flight MH17 from Amsterdam. The last known position was over Ukraine, it said in a tweet.

An aviation source in Moscow told Reuters the plane had been found burning on the ground in east Ukraine.

It had failed to enter Russian airspace, the source said.

The UK Foreign Office said it was aware of the reports of the crash and was "urgently working to establish what has happened"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856

Given recent events in the area I have to wonder if it may have been shot down accidentally.

 

[TheEdge]

Mod Note - Split from this thread.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856

Malaysia airliner crashes in east Ukraine near Russia border

A Malaysian airliner reportedly with 295 people on board has crashed in Ukraine near the Russian border, on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

Malaysia Airlines said it had lost contact with Flight MH17 from Amsterdam. The last known position was over Ukraine, it said in a tweet.

An aviation source in Moscow told Reuters the plane had been found burning on the ground in east Ukraine.

Separatist rebels have been fighting government forces in the region.

Current reports is a rebel force with a Buk launcher has shot down a Boeing 777. For those that don't know a Buk launcher is a very advanced radar guided ground-to-air missile. So if thats true well done Russia...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856

Current reports is a rebel force with a Buk launcher has shot down a Boeing 777. For those that don't know a Buk launcher is a very advanced radar guided ground-to-air missile. So if thats true well done Russia...

I can well imagine how badly this news will be received in Malaysia.

Whilst this is said to be the result of a missile strike, I will never forget in 1983 incident of the Korean Air Lines flight 007, which was shot down by a fighter plane.

 

[Class172]

I can well imagine how badly this news will be received in Malaysia.

Exactly echoing my thoughts Paul.

That's utterly disgraceful, shooting down an innocent passenger plane that has had no involvement recent events. I could perhaps understand a bit more if it was a Ukranian envoy; they clearly have no contempt (whomever caused it).

 

[bb21]

I can well imagine how badly this news will be received in Malaysia.

Whilst this is said to be the result of a missile strike, I will never forget in 1983 incident of the Korean Air Lines flight 007, which was shot down by a fighter plane.

The crew of KAL007 had a lot to answer for in that incident. It is still too early to say what had happened to MH017. Thoughts to all caught up in it.

Edit: I have split this from the main discussion of the Ukrainian conflicts as I gauge this would develop into its own conversation.

 

[CC 72100]

I can well imagine how badly this news will be received in Malaysia.

Whilst this is said to be the result of a missile strike, I will never forget in 1983 incident of the Korean Air Lines flight 007, which was shot down by a fighter plane.

And the Iran Air Airbus which was shot down by accident by the USS Vincennes warship too. Can't remember exact date/more details.

 

[user15681]

Last known position was over Snizhne, in eastern Ukraine, 50km east of Donetsk at 33,000 feet.

So very sad, 295 deaths.

 

[bb21]

Aircraft (a B772) appears to be 9M-MRD.

 

[starrymarkb]

And the Iran Air Airbus which was shot down by accident by the USS Vincennes warship too. Can't remember exact date/more details.

And the Tu154 (IIRC) in 2001 in the same region

 

[ainsworth74]

Current reports is a rebel force with a Buk launcher has shot down a Boeing 777.

I can't think of many 'rebels' that would a) have access to something as sophisticated as a Buk and b) would be able to use/maintain one even if they did. It's one thing to make use of a Strela 2, Igla or even a Stinger man-portable system for instance as the Mujahideen did during the Soviet war in Afghanistan but a Buk is a completely different kettle of fish.

If true this would have the finger prints of regular forces all over it...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If true this would have the finger prints of regular forces all over it...

Indeed, but the matter to consider is which regular forces....:roll:

 

[Class172]

I caught briefly on the radio that the rebel leader had issued a statement along the lines of they were aming to target a Ukrainian transporter. If this is true, it could be they thought they were aiming at their target, but the missile went past it to the 777.

Speculations… speculations…

 

[Darandio]

Current reports is a rebel force with a Buk launcher has shot down a Boeing 777. For those that don't know a Buk launcher is a very advanced radar guided ground-to-air missile. So if thats true well done Russia...

There are also reports that it was the Ukrainian Air Force that have brought it down. So if thats true well done Ukraine...

As we should know, all of these reports are bollocks until we know exactly what has happened.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Thoughts with all involved. Let's wait until we know more facts before apportioning blame.

 

[warriorofrovac]

What we must remember is that it is about 1am in Kuala Lumpur. A lot of people are going to be waking up soon expecting to head to the airport to meet their loved ones.

A lot of focus on what caused the crash, and little has actually been mentioned about those on board.

It's distressing to think about.

 

[cabbage]

Separatists claimed to have shot down an AN-26, then hastily removed all pictures and videos from their feed once it was apparently it was MH17.

https://twitter.com/myroslavapetsa/status/489795820070658048

 

[Haydn1971]

I'm a little surprised that commercial flights are being allowed by their insurance to actually fly over such a volatile airspace !

 

[185143]

I'm in Kuala Lumpur next week, two Malaysian flights lost in a relatively short space of time.. Getting nervous as I don't do flying that well.

 

[GatwickDepress]

What we must remember is that it is about 1am in Kuala Lumpur. A lot of people are going to be waking up soon expecting to head to the airport to meet their loved ones.

A lot of focus on what caused the crash, and little has actually been mentioned about those on board.

It's distressing to think about.

It is. My condolences to the family and friends of the deceased... it's a horrible thing, I can only imagine waking up to hear this news...

 

[Strathclyder]

Truly horrible. My thoughts are with the victims and their families and friends. Must be horrifying getting this kind of news.

R.I.P

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This atrocity has occurred during the feast of Ramadan which many of the Malaysian passengers would have been observing

 

[richw]

Russia and Ukraine are now both denying responsibility. At 33000ft it will take a sophisticated weapon they are saying rebels wont have access to an appropriate missile.

 

[muz379]

Sad news , thoughts go out to the family and loved ones of the passengers and crew

if it was shot down which is the assumption everybody is running with there is a lot of questions to be asked of either Ukraine or Russia depending on whose weapons have been used to do this .


If there are any American citizens on board there is going to be some tense diplomats right now

 

[ainsworth74]

Indeed, but the matter to consider is which regular forces....

Quite correct which is precisely why I phrased it the way I did!

 

[Monty]

Russia and Ukraine are now both denying responsibility. At 33000ft it will take a sophisticated weapon they are saying rebels wont have access to an appropriate missile.

There are several photos of rebels posing with captured Ukrainian Buk launchers, however as someone has already stated its an advanced piece of kit and well above something your average rebel could operate unless they have been trained..

 

[muz379]

There are several photos of rebels posing with captured Ukrainian Buk launchers, however as someone has already stated its an advanced piece of kit and well above something your average rebel could operate unless they have been trained..

Merely speculation but

Some rebels on either sides will be defectors from the military . All rebel forces have elements with military experience so perhaps that's how rebel forces on one side have come to operate a piece of kit like this .

That being said would Pro Ukraine rebels dare shoot down a Russian plane knowing the use of force that would illicit from Russia .

 

[starrymarkb]

I wonder if some of the rebels have worked out how to fire a buk, but not identify the target properly

 

[Jonny]

I know these are both RT (Russia Today), but they put a different slant on things (links in the headlines). The facts do need to be established, though...

Kiev deployed powerful surface-to-air missile systems to E. Ukraine ahead of the Malaysian plane crash – reports

and this adds a whole new dimension, although the link is rather tenuous:

Reports that Putin flew similar route as MH17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown Ukraine for long time'

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Again, we still don't actually know yet whether (a) a missile was fired, or (b) that missile struck the aircraft.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Merely speculation but

Some rebels on either sides will be defectors from the military . All rebel forces have elements with military experience so perhaps that's how rebel forces on one side have come to operate a piece of kit like this .

That being said would Pro Ukraine rebels dare shoot down a Russian plane knowing the use of force that would illicit from Russia .

Many of the rebels are former military ( and may have help from active Russian servicemen too...) don't forget they have already downed many Ukrainian planes already.

The RT links blaming Ukraine are their usual crud. No reason for the Ukraine to be manning SAMs unless Russian planes were intruding as the rebels have no airpower and certainly no transports.

I would wager an accidental shoot down by rebels perhaps unaware that airliners were still overflying the region.