Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[johnmoly]

Yes, I think George Osborne needs to wear a hard hat if he ventures anywhere near Liverpool or Manchester.

Very good !!

 

[AM9]

Very good !!

He could always send Boris to soften up adversaries ahead of his visits.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes, I think George Osborne needs to wear a hard hat if he ventures anywhere near Liverpool or Manchester.

He could always send Boris to soften up adversaries ahead of his visits.

Why would that be then?
He has opened more coffers in either place than anyone else recently.
He is MP for Tatton, so has local rights, and has only just welcomed the Chinese president to the area and opened an air route from Manchester to Beijing.
Not to mention unpausing TP electrification.

 

[8A Rail]

Why would that be then?
He has opened more coffers in either place than anyone else recently.
He is MP for Tatton, so has local rights, and has only just welcomed the Chinese president to the area and opened an air route from Manchester to Beijing.
Not to mention unpausing TP electrification.

He dont have local rights in Merseyside - end of! I dont have time for him!

 

[LDECRexile]

Phil Wieland has kindly made some photos available to us, two of which have already appeared in his outstanding 'nw-sparks' website.

I've put them in his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157650238941151

and in the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648494725811

Thank you Phil

 

[Camden]

He's certainly opened coffers for Manchester, but not so much in Liverpool. On the rare occasion he does visit Liverpool, for them it's a case of him showing up and smiling as if he's spending when instead it's private investment (such as Unilever and their ploughing big money into R&D) or commuters and businesses paying (such as the new road bridge). Were it not for the diesel rolling stock crisis and the fact that the lines out of Liverpool needed electrifying to complete a Manchester project (which as if to illustrate used to be called the "Manchester Hub" before I think they twigged it needed to be given wider appeal) I doubt that this thread would need to exist.

I would disagree that he doesn't have "local rights" to visit though. He is the chancellor of the country after all. It's just a shame he doesn't seem to realise this, seeming to take on instead the sole role of Chancellor of the Northern Powerhouse Superior Republic of Greater Manchester.

 

[pro4600]

How much of an impact will the Ordsall cord work have on the Liverpool - man vic services? Are we expected to see a period of suspensions?

 

[childwallblues]

How much of an impact will the Ordsall cord work have on the Liverpool - man vic services? Are we expected to see a period of suspensions?

Maybe divert the LIV-MCV stoppers to MCO if a period of closure is required.

 

[snowball]

This time last year there was talk of the need to complete the wiring from Ordsall Lane Junction to Vic because works for the Chord, then thought to be imminent, would require the opposite diversion, of trains that would otherwise have gone to the airport to go to Vic.

 

[nw-sparks]

The following schedules which run via Huyton popped up in the timetable database this morning:


5T80 23:24 Edge Hill Holding Sidings/Intercity Depot to Manchester Piccadilly Runs on Tue 03/11/15
5T81 00:41 Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Piccadilly Runs on Wed 04/11/15
5T82 02:18 Manchester Piccadilly to Wigan North Western Runs on Wed 04/11/15
5T83 03:51 Wigan North Western to Wigan North Western Runs on Wed 04/11/15
5T84 05:19 Wigan North Western to Edge Hill Holding Sidings/Intercity Depot Runs on Wed 04/11/15


They are booked for "125mph emu 390", i.e. Pendolinos.

Any ideas?

 

[WatcherZero]

My first thought was a TPE bidder doing proof of concept, though I didnt think they were allowed to bid Chat Moss routes they may have bid one anyway as a service enhancement.

Second thought was they were finally commissioning the backup grid connection on Chat Moss or doing something about the isolated section.

3rd thought is would Farnworth track be complete enough for a dragged gauging run.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is it testing the AT feed? There were some tests earlier this year they could not do as the infrastructure was not ready.
All the Wigan legs are via Golborne Jn (ATF not fitted via St Helens Central).

 

[driver_m]

Sounds like a job for topgun390 who sometimes posts on here. It'll be for testing the Overheads with a heavier draw and route proving for 390s. It gives an alternative for the stock moves between Edge Hill and Preston to go via St Helens directly rather than via Crewe.It's also a useful way of turning a pendo back round even if it is a slightly elaborate one that doesn't require a run to Birmingham. .

 

[LDECRexile]

I've received a note from a previously impeccable source saying:

You may have seen reference to Class 390 testing on the Chat Moss route again next week. This is to validate the power supply system now that it is fully configured in autotransformer mode. I think the associated work was the reason why the line has been closed for the last 2 weekends.

There are expected to be 2 test runs between Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly followed by 2 test runs from Liverpool to Wigan via St Helens. The paths are currently booked via Earlestown rather than St Helens but I expect this to be corrected before Tuesday night. The first Pendolino through St Helens will be around 03:30 so one for the truly dedicated!

Thank you

 

[Bevan Price]

Is there any update about when the 4th track between Huyton Jn & Roby Jn is likely to be connected and in use, please ??

 

[snowball]

Is there any update about when the 4th track between Huyton Jn & Roby Jn is likely to be connected and in use, please ??

I think we can safely say it will be in time for the December 2017 timetable change.

Any more than that would require inside knowledge I don't have.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think we can safely say it will be in time for the December 2017 timetable change.
Any more than that would require inside knowledge I don't have.

To be devil's advocate, what is it needed for?
There is no planned increase in service frequencies on the route (except possibly from Liverpool Port).
I would have thought it could wait till the South Junction corridor improvements are complete in Manchester (supposedly Dec 2019).
Having done half of it, new platforms and all, is a bit embarrassing though.
The work site and contractor's accommodation is still there from Phase 1.
The Hendy report will tell us (maybe).

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Having done half of it, new platforms and all, is a bit embarrassing though.
The work site and contractor's accommodation is still there from Phase 1.
The Hendy report will tell us (maybe).

Not at all - we're in a hell of a pickle with projects because people won't do things 2 or 3 years early and leave things sitting unused.

 

[Bevan Price]

To be devil's advocate, what is it needed for?
.

Apart from anything else, it should enable the xx:28 departures from Lime St.- Preston to reach Huyton without always being checked by the xx:20 all stations to Manchester Victoria.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Apart from anything else, it should enable the xx:28 departures from Lime St.- Preston to reach Huyton without always being checked by the xx:20 all stations to Manchester Victoria.

The timetable will have to be rewritten for EMUs one day (not this December apparently).
It will also have to cater for swapping the Airport fast with the Scarborough, and the diversion of the Victoria stopper to the Airport.
That's if they stick to the plan in the ITT.
I'm not trying to get it axed, but I don't quite see the urgency.

 

[8A Rail]

When the revised Huyton Junction takes place, trains to Prescot and beyond will have no choice but to use the UP Chat Moss slow line (the 4th line / platform 4) as there wont be any access from UP Chat Moss fast line (platform 3) to the slow line at the junction. The reversal of that is ok though, so any Manchester bound trains could use either line.

 

[childwallblues]

The timetable will have to be rewritten for EMUs one day (not this December apparently).
It will also have to cater for swapping the Airport fast with the Scarborough, and the diversion of the Victoria stopper to the Airport.
That's if they stick to the plan in the ITT.
I'm not trying to get it axed, but I don't quite see the urgency.

So the LIV-MIA will be going back to DMU?

 

[nw-sparks]

It may be nothing to do with the railway, but this morning I noticed a handful of people in Orange Army uniforms along with a theodolite, in the car park of Huyton telephone exchange. The theodolite was standing about where the fourth track will pass through.

Here's hoping,

Phil

 

[LDECRexile]

So the LIV-MIA will be going back to DMU?

No, it just means that as things stand, electric trains will run at diesel timings which are usually slower. So, for example, they will often arrive early and wait longer at stations and, where there's disruption, they may be able to make up some lost time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It may be nothing to do with the railway, but this morning I noticed a handful of people in Orange Army uniforms along with a theodolite, in the car park of Huyton telephone exchange. The theodolite was standing about where the fourth track will pass through.

Here's hoping,

Phil

Fingers crossed...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So the LIV-MIA will be going back to DMU?

I think I was a bit misleading there.
The ITT says the Scarborough will switch to Victoria, with a replacement Northern fast to Manchester on the CLC route.
The current Victoria stopper will run to the Airport.
The current Airport fast disappears.
At least that's how I read the service spec from 2017.
It does suggest one less EMU service out of Liverpool.
Maybe it's not what will get contracted in the new franchise.

 

[nw-sparks]

Nothing's gone through Huyton Platform 1 since 15:00 this afternoon, with all down trains using platform 2 - I wonder what's up.

Phil

 

[Bevan Price]

I think I was a bit misleading there.
The ITT says the Scarborough will switch to Victoria, with a replacement Northern fast to Manchester on the CLC route.
The current Victoria stopper will run to the Airport.
The current Airport fast disappears.
At least that's how I read the service spec from 2017.
It does suggest one less EMU service out of Liverpool.
Maybe it's not what will get contracted in the new franchise.

That is also what I understood was likely to happen, with the addition that one of the two TPE services each hour would call at St. Helens Junction & Newton Le Willows.

(And not a welcome move in my personal opinion, as the fast services from St. Helens Junction to both Liverpool & Manchester will lose a lot of seating capacity - an overcrowded 185 is not the ideal replacement for a Class 319 emu.)

 

[topgun390]

Testing 390 on Chatmoss Tues/Wed/Thurs.
Tue 5T80 23.24 Edgehill to Man Picc (lime St rev ) Rainhill /Eccles.
Wed 5T81 00.41 Man Picc to Man Picc Eccles/ Rainhill/ Lime st rev /Rainhill/Eccles
5T82 02.18 Man Picc to Wigan N.W. Eccles/Rainhill/Lime St rev/Rainhill/Earlestown/Golborne jct.
5T83 03.51 Wigan N.W. to Wigan N.W. as above from Wigan.
5T84 05.19 Wigan N.W to Edgehill Golborne/Earlestown/Rainhill/Lime St rev
Thurs
5T81/82/83 all run under Chat Moss at Newton le Will 00.52 to 05.18
long nights testing

T

 

[LDECRexile]

Phil Wieland has kindly sent three photos he took yesterday at Wigan.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157650238941151

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648494725811

Thank you Phil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Testing 390 on Chatmoss Tues/Wed/Thurs.
Tue 5T80 23.24 Edgehill to Man Picc (lime St rev ) Rainhill /Eccles.
Wed 5T81 00.41 Man Picc to Man Picc Eccles/ Rainhill/ Lime st rev /Rainhill/Eccles
5T82 02.18 Man Picc to Wigan N.W. Eccles/Rainhill/Lime St rev/Rainhill/Earlestown/Golborne jct.
5T83 03.51 Wigan N.W. to Wigan N.W. as above from Wigan.
5T84 05.19 Wigan N.W to Edgehill Golborne/Earlestown/Rainhill/Lime St rev
Thurs
5T81/82/83 all run under Chat Moss at Newton le Will 00.52 to 05.18
long nights testing

T

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to spell this out.

If any train is rescheduled to travel via St Helens Central and you get a chance to let us know, please do so.

Best wishes

Dave

 

[childwallblues]

That is also what I understood was likely to happen, with the addition that one of the two TPE services each hour would call at St. Helens Junction & Newton Le Willows.

(And not a welcome move in my personal opinion, as the fast services from St. Helens Junction to both Liverpool & Manchester will lose a lot of seating capacity - an overcrowded 185 is not the ideal replacement for a Class 319 emu.)

Spot on Bevan.
I travelled on the 0729 BGE-MCV (0720 ex LJV) this morning and it was full and standing from NLW.