McGill's Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and Eastern Scottish)

[Stan Drews]

The number of buses acquired with the FSE business was approximately 100 more than the actual number required to operate the current service levels, so many of this quoted 120 probably hadn’t been in use latterly. However, it was clear that First weren’t investing much in terms of maintenance, perhaps because they knew they had lots of buses parked up, that they could perhaps resurrect.

 

[Volvodart]

I think this was obvious with the number of buses painted in the new livery and then fairly quickly removed from service.

 

[XAM2175]

By my estimations they were mostly Solars, Profiles (4 out of 6), the BMC 1100FEs (3/4), Eclipse Urbans and those Streetlites that sit around broken all day since 2018 or something.

I wonder how many of those 120 vehicles which were "pulled off the road" were already SORN, or lying at the back of the depot in pieces before the takeover

Ahh, I hadn't considered that they might be announcing it in that manner.

Probably just another sensationalist story to get people to think "wow McGill's really are fantastic". ... I'd hate to think McGill's pulled buses off the road, which were serviceable (albeit at a low standard), then didn't have enough to provide the service that they were "excited and proud" to provide.

Yeah I really was reading it not as "wow they're great" but instead "well that sounds stupid".

 

[Simon75]

The vehicles would need to meet minimum legal standards but I suppose going beyond that is up to individual operators and some will invest more than others depending on what they can afford (of course that's partly dictated by what they collect in fares and season tickets). The First Scotland East fleet was certainly unattractive. But even when Lothian Country presented better looking alternatives on some routes, a good proportion of passengers still continued to use First. Maybe down to several reasons, but perhaps lower fares could be offered by economising on non-essential or cosmetic repairs.

Don't know if I believe McGill's were surprised by the state of fleet they inherited. The condition of FSE vehicles was well known to many passengers never mind bus experts. It sounds like they're lining up reasons to run down the network.

This happened in Cannock when Arriva sold out to D&G ( Centrebus)

 

[PaulMc7]

Do Mcgills have any plan for a paint shop anywhere to speed up the process of getting buses into the new liveries? I'd imagine it's still quite confusing for passengers considering there are buses in multiple different liveries.

I've also noticed that while SPT have been updating timetables at stops, the timetables still have First mentioned on them because they're dated to before the buyout happened. The electronic boards also have an "F" beside the service as if it's First too.

 

[mb88]

Do Mcgills have any plan for a paint shop anywhere to speed up the process of getting buses into the new liveries? I'd imagine it's still quite confusing for passengers considering there are buses in multiple different liveries.

Indeed. Putting fleet names onto the old livery would be a start. It’s surely not that difficult. Looking at their buses the casual observer would have absolutely no idea who the operator is.

 

[M803UYA]

This happened in Cannock when Arriva sold out to D&G ( Centrebus)

In both these instances, the price of the operations being sold would be reflected in the vehicles purchased with it. So, if you load an operation with older, end of life, fully depreciated vehicles that reduces the price of the sale. It would be logical to assume that minor faults might not be attended to on vehicles being disposed of.
In my career I worked for a Stagecoach subsidiary which assumed the operations of Eastbourne Buses and Cavendish Motor Services. Whilst a combined network was put in place, vehicles had to be hired in to maintain timetables of a higher vehicle requirement prior to that change. The reason for this being that the Cavendish fleet was more or less parked on purchase due to the poor mechanical condition of the vehicles. Stagecoach used to maintain vehicles on a 21 day inspection cycle (rather than the industry minimum of 6 weeks) - so Stagecoach operates its vehicles to a better mechanical condition than the industry standard. The double decker buses bought with Cavendish never operated under Stagecoach and were dispatched to Barnsley for scrapping. The low floor Darts were brought back into use over a number of months.
I don't know what inspection frequency McGills has in place for their other operations, but would assume with Ralph Roberts running it and his engineering background that it would be better than the legal minimum. It's not an operation that has frequent visits to the traffic commissioner for maintenance issues.

 

[Darklord8899]

I'd be embarrassed to my company name on many ex First Scotland East buses

It rather become the division that first used to "lose" buses/dump them there til they died and could be written off.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Changes now published: https://www.mcgillsscotlandeast.co....PioAXGsIaygO3nP_G6q0XCmY0h2vAfQyhTShlCJnv0kwc

We’re Stepping Up Services to Better Serve our West Lothian Community​

From Monday 21st November you’ll notice a number of positive changes with our services across the West Lothian network. We’ve been working hard since taking over from First Bus just seven weeks ago and are delighted to offer our passengers more direct routes, better connections and the best value ticket deals.

The first changes you’ll notice are on the following routes, which will now better connect the West Lothian community. Keep your eyes peeled though, we intend to make further changes as we continue to grow these vital services in your area.

21: Whitburn to Livingston, via Armadale and Blackburn (link opens timetable)​

We’re dedicated to connecting the local community which is why our 21 service has been extended to now serve Dedridge West/East, Muireston and Livingston South Station.

X22: Shotts to Edinburgh via Whitburn and Livingston (link opens timetable)​

This busy route is now the most direct between Livingston and Edinburgh. With services running every 30 minutes we’ve made it easier to get into the city or home after a busy day.

X24/X25: Deans to Edinburgh via Livingston Centre, Broxburn & Corstorphine (link opens timetable)​

With the X25 it’s now never been easier to travel between Bathgate and Livingston and we’re excited to have made some changes to make this another most direct route. We've made some changes to the X24 timetable and our X25 service will get you where you need to be in under an hour, with services running every 30 minutes.

Serving St John’s Hospital​

Not only are our X22 and X25 services the most direct routes between Livingston, Bathgate and Edinburgh, but both services will also now serve St John’s hospital too, making it easier for passengers to get to appointments, work or visiting times. These routes will now run direct into the hospital grounds, getting you where you need to be closer and quicker – perfect as the winter weather starts to roll in!

The article then continues to talk about ticket bundles..

From what I can see, most changes are the same as what were posted a few pages back

 

[Stan Drews]

Good to see that a revised West Lothian network map has been produced.

https://images-mcgillsse.passenger-website.com/2022-11/West%20Lothian%20and%20Livingston.pdf

It also looks like printed timetable leaflets may be making a comeback, with these being produced for next week’s revised 21, X22, and X24/X25 services.

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/21-timetable-20221121-de6cbeb8.pdf

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/X22-timetable-20221121-84bde281.pdf

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/X24-timetable-20221121-e2e34d1c.pdf

 

[stevenedin]

Good to see that a revised West Lothian network map has been produced.

https://images-mcgillsse.passenger-website.com/2022-11/West%20Lothian%20and%20Livingston.pdf

It also looks like printed timetable leaflets may be making a comeback, with these being produced for next week’s revised 21, X22, and X24/X25 services.

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/21-timetable-20221121-de6cbeb8.pdf

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/X22-timetable-20221121-84bde281.pdf

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/X24-timetable-20221121-e2e34d1c.pdf

They look great

 

[wlbusser]

Well this is a first with McGill's for me.

Sitting on 2281 an Eclipse Urban which has its front destination board blank/not working and just a piece of A4 with X38 on it to signify the bus.

Definitely not a good look, to be honest.

 

[DC21]

Well this is a first with McGill's for me.

Sitting on 2281 an eclipse urban which has its front destination board blank/not working and just a piece of A4 with X38 on it to signify the bus.

Definitely not a good look tbh.

Better a bus with an A4 destination than no bus at all. Could be something as simple as the boards broken and it'll get repaired when it's back to the depot.

 

[wlbusser]

Yeah better a bus with A4 destination than no bus, still not good but at least I got to work on time.

I did notice another A4 sheet behind it facing into the bus with 4 on it though so maybe also running the 4 service?

 

[GusB]

They're going for the authentic Scottish Bus Group look!

 

[PaulMc7]

To be honest, I can't think of any bus company I've seen or used that haven't had to put a piece of paper in with the number and destination at one point or another. One offs happen to every company. I'd only be bothered if it was a regular thing.

As for timetables, the printed layout are far easier to read and I hope they do them for all services eventually. It saves a lot of zooming out and scrolling compared to the current layout on the website.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Well this is a first with McGill's for me.

Sitting on 2281 an Eclipse Urban which has its front destination board blank/not working and just a piece of A4 with X38 on it to signify the bus.

Definitely not a good look, to be honest.

2281 had a working destination screen 2 days ago so….

Could be something as simple as the boards broken and it'll get repaired when it's back to the depot.

….is almost certainly the reason

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Here’s a question. Scotland East were always known to have an overall bad fleet. I wonder how far back these bad maintenance records and shabby presentation go back? It feels like something that may have even preceded First.

Also I wonder how long it’ll be before the scrap man starts collecting stuff. McGill’s will surely want these redundant knackered buses out as soon as they can. I’m a tad surprised they haven’t ventured into the second hand market yet, but maybe that’s still to come. There’s that supposed order of new buses as well mentioned previously by others.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Here’s a question. Scotland East were always known to have an overall bad fleet. I wonder how far back these bad maintenance records and shabby presentation go back? It feels like something that may have even preceded First.

Sounds like not much has changed since Midland Scottish days.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Here’s a question. Scotland East were always known to have an overall bad fleet. I wonder how far back these bad maintenance records and shabby presentation go back? It feels like something that may have even preceded First.

Yes, my impression from using the predecessors to McGills is that lower standards have been the case since the mid-1970s. I believe there was a severe shortage of buses in the late 1970s which didn't help matters.
But this is only in comparison to the Edinburgh Corporation and its successors. By wider standards maybe these were perfectly OK.
There were clear exceptions in the 30 years between 1980 and about 2010 (a few shockers from 1985 to 1990) but since 2010 I have found their vehicles rather poor.

 

[scosutsut]

Yes, my impression from using the predecessors to McGills is that lower standards have been the case since the mid-1970s. I believe there was a severe shortage of buses in the late 1970s which didn't help matters.
But this is only in comparison to the Edinburgh Corporation and its successors. By wider standards maybe these were perfectly OK.
There were clear exceptions in the 30 years between 1980 and about 2010 (a few shockers from 1985 to 1990) but since 2010 I have found their vehicles rather poor.

I'd agree that it seems to be an ingrained problem.

Different owners - including different times when the corporate philosophy and financial stability differed - and they've been poor most of the time.

A look at a few of their tattier vehicles over the years led me to wonder if the only tool they had was a hand riveter - is it an issue with training and equipment?

 

[Observer]

Do Mcgills have any plan for a paint shop anywhere to speed up the process of getting buses into the new liveries? I'd imagine it's still quite confusing for passengers considering there are buses in multiple different liveries.

Not sure how much work would be required to resurrect it other than getting staff in place of course but there is a paint shop at Larbert that could be put to use.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Not sure how much work would be required to resurrect it other than getting staff in place of course but there is a paint shop at Larbert that could be put to use.

It's a shame I don't live closer, as a coach painter that's a challenge I'd love to take on, a full fleet re-livery..!

 

[jb66]

Not great service today considering the 275 lothian has ceased, 600 off till 11am.

 

[JurassicMan]

Not great service today considering the 275 lothian has ceased, 600 off till 11am.

Not sure why you think the 276(not 275) being removed would help the driver situation at McGills?

The fact Lothian Country has abandoned large areas will have no bearing on McGills service levels at present.

Here’s a question. Scotland East were always known to have an overall bad fleet. I wonder how far back these bad maintenance records and shabby presentation go back? It feels like something that may have even preceded First.

Also I wonder how long it’ll be before the scrap man starts collecting stuff. McGill’s will surely want these redundant knackered buses out as soon as they can. I’m a tad surprised they haven’t ventured into the second hand market yet, but maybe that’s still to come. There’s that supposed order of new buses as well mentioned previously by others.

To be fair in 2016 when Livingston got a delivery of ADL to go with the 64 plate Streetlites they had one of the most up to date fleets in First group. That all changed when LCB arrived and passenger numbers dropped to levels that in the main did not require ADL double deck buses.

 

[PaulMc7]

Not sure why you think the 276(not 275) being removed would help the driver situation at McGills?

The fact LCB has abandoned large areas will have no bearing on McGills service levels at present.

Going by the lists posted by Mcgills, the cancellations haven't even been that bad either. It's not perfect but suddenly West Lothian looks a bit better than a lot of other areas in Scotland.

 

[JurassicMan]

Going by the lists posted by Mcgills, the cancellations haven't even been that bad either. It's not perfect but suddenly West Lothian looks a bit better than a lot of other areas in Scotland.

And you can never legislate for drivers for whatever reason not turning out for their shift. The days of depots carrying spare drivers to cover failure to report are long gone with current situation.

 

[overthewater]

Good to see that a revised West Lothian network map has been produced.

https://images-mcgillsse.passenger-website.com/2022-11/West%20Lothian%20and%20Livingston.pdf

It also looks like printed timetable leaflets may be making a comeback, with these being produced for next week’s revised 21, X22, and X24/X25 services.

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/21-timetable-20221121-de6cbeb8.pdf

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/X22-timetable-20221121-84bde281.pdf

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mcgillsse/MESC/X24-timetable-20221121-e2e34d1c.pdf

Nothing in paper as of yet, but hopefully soon..

Not sure why you think the 276(not 275) being removed would help the driver situation at McGills?

The fact LCB has abandoned large areas will have no bearing on McGills service levels at present.


To be fair in 2016 when Livingston got a delivery of ADL to go with the 64 plate streetlites they had one of the most up to date fleets in firstgroup,that all changed when LCB arrived and passenger numbers dropped to levels that in the main did not require ADL double deck buses.

Im surprised people think McGill will be able to magic up a lot of new drivers.

 

[PaulMc7]

And you can never legislate for drivers for whatever reason not turning out for their shift. The days of depots carrying spare drivers to cover failure to report are long gone with current situation.

I 100% agree with that. If companies can get enough to run 100% of current timetables excluding technical issues it's a miracle in itself before thinking about many increases.

 

[Baileygirl]

I 100% agree with that. If companies can get enough to run 100% of current timetables excluding technical issues it's a miracle in itself before thinking about many increases.

There are 30+ buses off the road in Livingston compared to before the pandemic. This has been made by curtailing services and cutting down on frequencies. That would equate to roughly 60+ drivers short which is a huge mountain to climb to bring back any decent service in West Lothian.