Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[karlbbb]

Only if it's actually true though. Do you not think it's a little implausible, considering this technology is in use on other units from the same manufacturer elsewhere in the UK and indeed on a variety of rolling stock all over Europe, with no such issues?

Which is certainly why I was quite incredulous when the train manager said it. But it was the train manager for that journey, and she said it loudly to a lot of passengers.

 

[jamesst]

Which is certainly why I was quite incredulous when the train manager said it. But it was the train manager for that journey, and she said it loudly to a lot of passengers.

She'd be the last to be told if it was happening, I'd defo take that with a pinch of salt

 

[AndrewE]

She'd be the last to be told if it was happening, I'd defo take that with a pinch of salt

So why would she make it up?

 

[jamesst]

So why would she make it up?

Messroom rumour probably

 

[AndrewE]

Messroom rumour probably

and that is sufficient cause to harrass people away from carriage ends/doors? Maybe she doesn't have much faith in the official training she received - or the design and production processes!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

and that is sufficient cause to harrass people away from carriage ends/doors? Maybe she doesn't have much faith in the official training she received - or the design and production processes!

Under no circumstances is it acceptable for her to usher people away from public parts of the train (unless broken) purely because she believes the trains weren't built well enough. I'd report her to Merseyrail if she was doing that.

 

[karlbbb]

Under no circumstances is it acceptable for her to usher people away from public parts of the train (unless broken) purely because she believes the trains weren't built well enough. I'd report her to Merseyrail if she was doing that.

Just to be clear, the train manager in question was not ushering people away from the doors at the time. The train I was on picked up a huge amount of people at Kirkdale and I assume the train before us had broken down. She was chatting with the people around the doorway she was operating from when she said about these areas being marked soon. Nothing more than that.

 

[OL-3944]

There is an element of truth to this, but I’m not sure about the chevron bit.

2x units have failed recently due to the train being crush loaded/ overloaded. Due to the excess weight the sliding step is now lower that the platform edge and will not retract until the step is back level with the platform.

On another note TMs have been asked not too step onto the sliding step when performing dispatch duties as they are wearing out the step mechanism…..

 

[Bletchleyite]

Did they get a budget version or something? None of this seems to be an issue in other countries.

 

[KevinTurvey]

Perhaps if they took out the central vestibule pole (which just causes a blockage and problems for prams and bikes) it might encourage people to more uniformly distribute themselves throughout the carriage, rather than just stand next to the doors?

 

[AndrewE]

Just to be clear, the train manager in question was not ushering people away from the doors at the time. The train I was on picked up a huge amount of people at Kirkdale and I assume the train before us had broken down. She was chatting with the people around the doorway she was operating from when she said about these areas being marked soon. Nothing more than that.

which is a totally different story to post #5122! (standing floor space above the sliding steps would be “marked with chevrons to stop people standing on them” as “the weight is too much and stopping the steps from deploying”)
Perfectly reasonable to ask for elbow room if trying to despatch from a passenger door.

 

[karlbbb]

which is a totally different story to post #5122! (standing floor space above the sliding steps would be “marked with chevrons to stop people standing on them” as “the weight is too much and stopping the steps from deploying”)
Perfectly reasonable to ask for elbow room if trying to despatch from a passenger door.

No it's not. We picked up a lot of passengers at Kirkdale. After the train left, the TM was speaking to some of the passengers about how busy the train was, and she said "within 12 months the trains will have chevrons marked on these areas of the floor as the weight is too much and the steps are breaking". She wasn't moving people away, I never said she was moving people away. Anywhere. It was you who made that up in post #5135.

She wasn't asking for room, she didn't move anyone, she didn't need to.

 

[MattRat]

No it's not. We picked up a lot of passengers at Kirkdale. After the train left, the TM was speaking to some of the passengers about how busy the train was, and she said "within 12 months the trains will have chevrons marked on these areas of the floor as the weight is too much and the steps are breaking". She wasn't moving people away, I never said she was moving people away. Anywhere. It was you who made that up in post #5135.

She wasn't asking for room, she didn't move anyone, she didn't need to.

It does sound more like speculation though, than actual policy.

 

[AlexNL]

Did they get a budget version or something? None of this seems to be an issue in other countries.

To me the description of the issue ("step is not level with the platform and refuses to retract") sounds like there's a level sensor which is being a bit too protective. Something which can probably be fixed with a minor software update to tweak the parameters.

If there is indeed such a sensor, I'm assuming that its purpose is to prevent the motors from having to work outside of their design parameters.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I went to The Open yesterday using the special 10 minute interval service from Liverpool. On arrival at Hoylake, I found a temporary buffer stop had been erected at the end of the West Kirby bound platform. A temporary platform-level walkway had also been built allowing step-free crossing between the two sides.

At the end of the day, I joined the queue at Hoylake station on the Liverpool platform and saw a class 777 approaching the one opposite. The Merseyrail staff had allowed a certain number of earlier passengers to cross and these filled the train with only a small number of people standing. However there were obviously problems with the doors with red strip lights persistently coming on and off in the back carriage. Eventually the unit was declared a failure and everybody was told to get off. The 777 departed ECS.

A 6-car 507 or 508 (who can tell the difference) then arrived and the staff allowed a large number of people, myself included, to cross over and join those from the failed train. This must have at least doubled the numbers on the platform. Most, if not all, got on but it was very crowded. The 6-car train promptly departed via the trailing crossover.

 

[AndrewE]

A 6-car 507 or 508 (who can tell the difference) then arrived and the staff allowed a large number of people, myself included, to cross over and join those from the failed train. This must have at least doubled the numbers on the platform. Most, if not all, got on but it was very crowded. The 6-car train promptly departed via the trailing crossover.

KISS! This is the sort of thing which makes me mad when the BR "old guard" are derided for being incompetent ("only there because they couldn't get a better job.") Of course new designs needed bedding in and staff familarisation, but I'm sure that software couldn't defeat the best purposes of the staff back then. Trains ran "crush-loaded" without issue.
Modern crap with too many bells and whistles and over-protective self-monitoring software is all-to-often not fit for purpose in a public transport environment.

 

[bahnause]

While I enjoy bits and bobs of anecdotal evidence, I don't think the data supports the conclusion that older vehicles are more reliable than new ones.

 

[AndrewE]

While I enjoy bits and bobs of anecdotal evidence, I don't think the data supports the conclusion that older vehicles are more reliable than new ones.

not even on Merseyrail today?

 

[irish_rail]

While I enjoy bits and bobs of anecdotal evidence, I don't think the data supports the conclusion that older vehicles are more reliable than new ones.

Seriously??!!!

 

[prod_pep]

Following the aforementioned 777 failure, 508130 ran in its stead in 3 car formation on the Hoylake service this evening. Crush-loaded would be an understatement. And that, kids, is what happens when vanity trumps common sense.

 

[Sam 76]

Following the aforementioned 777 failure, 508130 ran in its stead in 3 car formation on the Hoylake service this evening. Crush-loaded would be an understatement. And that, kids, is what happens when vanity trumps common sense.

The doors on the 777s are no vanity project. They are key for accessibility and although not working too well right now will be a vast improvement going forwards. I suspect they are looking at ways already to make the doors a little less sensitive

 

[prod_pep]

The doors on the 777s are no vanity project. They are key for accessibility and although not working too well right now will be a vast improvement going forwards. I suspect they are looking at ways already to make the doors a little less sensitive

This has nothing to do with the doors. Vanity is allocating a 777 to the Hoylake service when their reliability is still far short of what is required for a major event.

 

[Sam 76]

This has nothing to do with the doors. Vanity is allocating a 777 to the Hoylake service when their reliability is still far short of what is required for a major event.

Ahh sorry a misunderstanding there. Will be interesting to see what happens next few weeks. 6 more 507/508 going will mean 777s responsibility’s will have to increase.

 

[irish_rail]

Ahh sorry a misunderstanding there. Will be interesting to see what happens next few weeks. 6 more 507/508 going will mean 777s responsibility’s will have to increase.

My thoughts and prayers to the people of Merseyside.....

 

[tom1649]

When did Merseyrail guards become "Train Managers"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

When did Merseyrail guards become "Train Managers"?

It's the name of the new pseudo OBS role on the 777s.

 

[tom1649]

It's the name of the new pseudo OBS role on the 777s.

I see. So when they're on a 507/508 they are a guard and when they're on a 777 they're a train manager?

 

[185]

Do you not think it's a little implausible, considering this technology is in use on other units from the same manufacturer elsewhere in the UK and indeed on a variety of rolling stock all over Europe, with no such issues?

Been widely talked about, not just on this forum

Exactly this:

2x units have failed recently due to the train being crush loaded/ overloaded. Due to the excess weight the sliding step is now lower that the platform edge and will not retract until the step is back level with the platform.

On another note TMs have been asked not to step onto the sliding step when performing dispatch duties as they are wearing out the step mechanism…..

To me, it seems we have a light-rail-type train that wasn't properly tested with obvious and normal passenger use scenarios.

Manchester Metrolink's light rail trams have been observed sinking 3 inches down during music festivals crush loaded with passengers routinely tripping over what are normally level access platforms.

We're stuck with them now. Whilst in warranty, it's time for Spadler to hurry up and make modifications to modify or remove elements of their technology that doesn't work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if it'd just be possible to turn that sensor off? I suspect it's designed for German platforms which are stepped back at the top and so it could catch, that's not possible on a British platform as the top is stepped out.

 

[bahnause]

What kind of sensor are we talking about?