Midland Mainline timetable changes May 2018

[Bletchleyite]

If there are 'fast' Thameslink services that replace the lost EMT services at Bedford then that would be reasonably acceptable. What absolutely isn't acceptable is requiring passengers from Leagrave, Harlington, Ampthill, Bedford or passengers from the Marston Vale Line travelling to the north having to use a rail replacement bus service between Bedford and Wellingborough.

That I do agree with.

 

[A0wen]

What absolutely isn't acceptable is requiring passengers from Leagrave, Harlington, Ampthill, Bedford or passengers from the Marston Vale Line travelling to the north having to use a rail replacement bus service between Bedford and Wellingborough.

And as I keep pointing out - the numbers joining such trains at Bedford are minimal - penny figures in fact.

And that's joining at Bedford i.e. could have come from further afield.

So - once again, the timetable change is about what works best for the majority of people.

The majority of people from Bedford are travelling south - there will be far more seats on southbound departures.

The majority of people travelling from Wellingborough and Kettering are travelling to London - they will benefit from (i) the chance of getting a seat is far greater because the train isn't being filled with commuters from Bedford or Luton and (ii) potentially a slightly quicker journey time.

People travelling longer distances - Leicester, Nottingham, will also benefit as they are more likely to get a seat - which given the fares they are paying isn't unreasonable, rather than having to stand for 30 minutes until the half the passengers leave at Bedford.

The bustitution is temporary - driven by platform constraints at Bedford and the infrastructure works that need to be done between Bedford and Kettering - once that's done Bedford will have a 2 tph service north to Wellingborough and Kettering on electric services.

The only remaining question is where EMT's longer distance services should stop - and I'm sorry, but the obvious answer is Luton Airport - to provide a link to the airport and Kettering, to provide the link to the electric service. That would be very similar to the situation on the ECML where you have Stevenage and Peterborough used as the VTEC link and the distances are similar - ideally EMT's first stop after Luton Airport would be Leicester, but that's not practical as there is the need to provide a link to intermediate stations and also serve Market Harborough, so by virtue of its location, Kettering is the logical place.

 

[38Cto15E]

Is there a provisional MML May 2018 timetable available for public viewing anywhere on tinternet?

 

[sufian123]

Is there a provisional MML May 2018 timetable available for public viewing anywhere on tinternet?

Yes see opentrainstimes or trains.im

 

[38Cto15E]

Many thanks sufian123
I have just had a very quick look at 1C20 The Master Cutler, currently Sheffield 0729, Leicester 0824, St Pancras 0933.
From May SHF 0729 LEI 0826 and STP 0941.
Surely that will not go down well with the business folk from Sheffield.

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[Senex]

Similar for the main Nottingham business train... 11 minutes slower...

Currently 0755 - 0926
Proposed 0756 - 0938

It looks like 2 minutes box time (i.e. engineering) and no less than 13½ minutes circle time (i.e. pathing) in a 102-minute schedule. The 2 minutes is perhaps a bit less than one might expect, but 13½ minutes pathing for Nottingham's principal up business train seems crazy.

 

[JonnyHB]

I'd personally like to see places along the MML that currently miss out (Kibworth, Desborough, Oakley/Clapham/Milton Ernest) served. The Nottingham-Leicester local service could be extended south to either Kettering or Bedford (a northbound bay platform might need to be sneaked in?). Every other part of the MML has local services and the timetable change highlights this gap.

On a separate note, I'm still not really sure why Corby isn't just being tacked onto Thameslink after electrification. It's further south than both Peterborough and Kings Lynn. If that were the case stopping most long distance trains at Kettering would probably be justified and most journeys would be fairly straightforward.

 

[AgentSmith]

At the present time, the Nottingham local service wouldn't be able to extend any further south - the speed limit of the 15x rolling stock is too low to intermix and extra units would be needed (that don't exist)...

I'd personally like to see places along the MML that currently miss out (Kibworth, Desborough, Oakley/Clapham/Milton Ernest) served. The Nottingham-Leicester local service could be extended south to either Kettering or Bedford (a northbound bay platform might need to be sneaked in?). Every other part of the MML has local services and the timetable change highlights this gap.

 

[JonnyHB]

At the present time, the Nottingham local service wouldn't be able to extend any further south - the speed limit of the 15x rolling stock is too low to intermix and extra units would be needed (that don't exist)...

Clearly I'm talking about the concept not the minutiae which could be figured out. You might as well say no new services could ever be introduced because the trains 'don't exist'. Operationally there is a point there; the Nottingham-Leicester service uses the slow/freight lines of course, but the slow lines don't exist for the whole route between Leicester and Kettering and south to Bedford may not be up to it in their current state.

 

[edwin_m]

Clearly I'm talking about the concept not the minutiae which could be figured out. You might as well say no new services could ever be introduced because the trains 'don't exist'. Operationally there is a point there; the Nottingham-Leicester service uses the slow/freight lines of course, but the slow lines don't exist for the whole route between Leicester and Kettering and south to Bedford may not be up to it in their current state.

The slow lines between Bedford and Kettering are being re-doubled for the Corby service so that shouldn't be a problem. However the two-track section between Kettering North and Wigston is close to capacity and it's highly unlikely any extra trains would be possible particularly if they make extra stops.

 

[InTheEastMids]

EMT have published the timetable for May 2018.
https://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/Global/May2018/Thameslink May18 timetable v2.pdf

At a glance, it made fairly depressing reading - looks like a typical non-stop London to Harborough/Leicester service will be around around 5 minutes slower through most of the day.

On the plus side, it means that when it's all finished, EMT's successor will be able to trumpet a 5 minute acceleration to journeys when it finishes, and various other tweaks to the network e.g. Market Harborough linespeed project mean that we can get back to today's situation.

 

[eastwestdivide]

EMT have published the timetable for May 2018.
https://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/Global/May2018/Thameslink May18 timetable v2.pdf
...

Sheffield-London fasts mostly slowed to 2h10ish rather than the 2h00ish as now.
Oddity: the 1650 StP-Corby is down as an HST.

 

[cactustwirly]

I've managed to work out what I think are the ex GC HST diagrams, but it isn't much just a few workings M-F.

Diagram 1 is:
1C92 0730 DBY - STP 0927
1D24 1005 STP - NOT 1203

Diagram 2:
5C32 1231 Etches Park - SHF 1325
1C52 1359 SHF - STP 1624
1M56 1650 STP - COR 1755
1P71 1837 COR - STP 1956
1F73 2031 STP - DBY 2215
5F73 2218 DBY - Etches Park 2232

Diagram doesn't look complete, no ECS workings to/from Etches Park, and it magically dissapears after arrival at Nottingham.

 

[Ianno87]

There's an HST that spends the morning peak shuttling Kettering<>Corby. Then forms the Corby-Derby mid-morning service before ECSing to Nottingham to then form a fast to St Pancras.

 

[railneighbour]

It's great to see progress... Kettering and Wellingborough essentially moving to hourly off-peak services south to London.

When the second Corby-London service is introduced (if?), once the wires are up, will that take the slot of the old Corby service, leaving Kettering around 25 past the hour? If that's the case why didn't they just keep that one and move the 55-past Nottingham service later like they have done? Much more sensible spacing that way.

 

[Ianno87]

It's great to see progress... Kettering and Wellingborough essentially moving to hourly off-peak services south to London.

When the second Corby-London service is introduced (if?), once the wires are up, will that take the slot of the old Corby service, leaving Kettering around 25 past the hour? If that's the case why didn't they just keep that one and move the 55-past Nottingham service later like they have done? Much more sensible spacing that way.

Looks like (for whatever reason) the Sheffield semi and Nottingham fast have taken what was roughly the old Corby path.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Oddity: the 1650 StP-Corby is down as an HST.

Would that be a diagram for one of the former Grand Central 6 car rakes?

 

[louis97]

There's an HST that spends the morning peak shuttling Kettering<>Corby. Then forms the Corby-Derby mid-morning service before ECSing to Nottingham to then form a fast to St Pancras.

Ignore what formations EMT have put in the timetable, they also seem to have an issue understanding that timing load is different to what a train is diagrammed. The morning Kettering to Corby shuttles and the Corby-Derby service are timed as HSTs now, but are very much Meridians. Anyhow, The Corby-Derby Meridian goes empty to Nottingham and forms the slower service to London (1B41) (ignore the platform allocations, they are not correct), it replaces the 2+6 HST which will have arrived off 1D24 1005 STP-NOT as posted above.

 

[cactustwirly]

Would that be a diagram for one of the former Grand Central 6 car rakes?

Looks like it, it's on the same diagram as the 1359 ex Sheffield, both of which would normally be 222 diagrams.

The 1005 St Pancras - Nottingham looks like another diagram.

 

[cactustwirly]

Ignore what formations EMT have put in the timetable, they also seem to have an issue understanding that timing load is different to what a train is diagrammed. The morning Kettering to Corby shuttles and the Corby-Derby service are timed as HSTs now, but are very much Meridians. Anyhow, The Corby-Derby Meridian goes empty to Nottingham and forms the slower service to London (1B41) (ignore the platform allocations, they are not correct), it replaces the 2+6 HST which will have arrived off 1D24 1005 STP-NOT as posted above.

What happens to the HST off 1D24 after it arrives at Nottingham?

 

[louis97]

What happens to the HST off 1D24 after it arrives at Nottingham?

Back to Etches Park as far as i'm aware.

 

[KatieLouLou]

Ignore what formations EMT have put in the timetable, they also seem to have an issue understanding that timing load is different to what a train is diagrammed. The morning Kettering to Corby shuttles and the Corby-Derby service are timed as HSTs now, but are very much Meridians. Anyhow, The Corby-Derby Meridian goes empty to Nottingham and forms the slower service to London (1B41) (ignore the platform allocations, they are not correct), it replaces the 2+6 HST which will have arrived off 1D24 1005 STP-NOT as posted above.

Especially as there seems to be a clash at Corby between 9 and 9.30, and it would make much more sense for the 08.56 St Pancras arrival to continue as the 09.26 Derby and the shuttle to come out of the loop and form the 09.32 St Pancras...

There's also an apalling evening connection out of the Derby to Kettering via Corby, which then forms the 1810 Kettering Sheffield via Market Harborough. Arrives at Kettering just as the St Pancras departs. Though I'm not actually sure what purpose that 1810 actually serves.

 

[Ianno87]

Especially as there seems to be a clash at Corby between 9 and 9.30, and it would make much more sense for the 08.56 St Pancras arrival to continue as the 09.26 Derby and the shuttle to come out of the loop and form the 09.32 St Pancras...

There's also an apalling evening connection out of the Derby to Kettering via Corby, which then forms the 1810 Kettering Sheffield via Market Harborough. Arrives at Kettering just as the St Pancras departs. Though I'm not actually sure what purpose that 1810 actually serves.

Is the 1810 splitting off something else?

 

[43055]

Is the 1810 splitting off something else?

Hi,

I new to the forum but know a little about the changes come may,

The 1810 is the replacement for the 1700 London to Corby and Sheffield which is now HST to Corby

There is only 2 diagrams to begin with those mentioned in post #164 with 1D24 going back to EP and the southbound being replaced with a 4 car 222 from the morning Corby shuttle - The HST notes in the timetable and RTT has always been like this but it has always been a 222.

Also noted on Monday that two more powercars have gone for painting across the road at Loram.

 

[Class 170101]

The Down Road still maintains the two hour journey time from St Pancras to Sheffield.

The thing that interests me is why a bus is needed from Bedford to Wellingborough in the northbound direction where EMT have their own northbound platform at Bedford?

 

[Senex]

The Down Road still maintains the two hour journey time from St Pancras to Sheffield.

Certainly. But in the up direction all the gains brought about by the substantial expenditure a few years ago on line-speed improvements with the aim of giving Sheffield—at long last—its two-hour service seem to be being sacrificed in order to keep the London commuters happy.

 

[Hadders]

Certainly. But in the up direction all the gains brought about by the substantial expenditure a few years ago on line-speed improvements with the aim of giving Sheffield—at long last—its two-hour service seem to be being sacrificed in order to keep the London commuters happy.

Which London commuters - not the ones from Bedford given that EMT services in the peak are withdrawn.

Just exactly who benefits from this timetable change?

 

[richa2002]

Which London commuters - not the ones from Bedford given that EMT services in the peak are withdrawn.

Just exactly who benefits from this timetable change?

Network Rail.