Motorway Driving - too many idiots

[HOOVER29]

Special mention must go to those who use a full length down hill slip road to reach a speed of 45-50 mph (hence, slower than the HGVs they are about to merge into) with no consideration of those behind them.

Also those who, in slow moving traffic, don't use the fuil length of the slip road, instead merging into the main carriageway halfway along its length.

The A444 junction on to the southbound M42 is a firm favourite for this type
Tootle down the slip road & join at no more than 40 & then accelerate
I have to drive past this junction every day & now move out to the outside lane if I see a slow vehicle attempting to join the carriageway

 

[DerekC]

It really frustrates me and I don’t get why people do it. It’s unnecessary.

I was taught by my driving instructor to not signal left until the vehicle I was overtaking could comfortably be seen in full in my centre mirror, and then check the distance of the vehicle again the centre mirror before moving back to the left. Judging off how people drive, either most instructors don’t bother teaching that or most drivers don’t bother to remember what their instructor taught them.

That's OK and it was how I was taught. However it doesn't cope when you are in Lane 3 overtaking a queue in Lane 2 with a tailgater right up behind you. At the head of the Lane 2 queue tailgater gets impatient, cuts into Lane 2 before you do (right in front of the vehicle you have juts overtaken) and tries to undertake just as you are heading back into Lane 2. I have had that happen numerous times. My preferred solution is to put the left indicator on as soon as I am past the front Lane 2 vehicle, but wait until I think it's safe before changing lanes. That usually deters undertaking. For some reason it usually seems to be large Audi cars (rather than 4x4s) that try it.

 

[Peter Sarf]

That's OK and it was how I was taught. However it doesn't cope when you are in Lane 3 overtaking a queue in Lane 2 with a tailgater right up behind you. At the head of the Lane 2 queue tailgater gets impatient, cuts into Lane 2 before you do (right in front of the vehicle you have juts overtaken) and tries to undertake just as you are heading back into Lane 2. I have had that happen numerous times. My preferred solution is to put the left indicator on as soon as I am past the front Lane 2 vehicle, but wait until I think it's safe before changing lanes. That usually deters undertaking. For some reason it usually seems to be large Audi cars (rather than 4x4s) that try it.

Yes, I have experienced that. It is part of the general problem where if you have a gap which you think is safe then someone less patient squeezes into it.

Also happens when someones leaps out of a slow moving lane into your lane.

Also happens when I am following another car at a safe distance but someone from a left or right lane squeezes in.

At the end of the day I just ignore their impatience and concentrate on leaving what I think is a safe distance. But it is a case of some people drive assuming everyone else is as quick reacting as them or that they are somehow going to be lucky.

 

[TPO]

I love how threads on driving quickly end up bad tempered and erratic in direction, just like the average road on Britain.

Which is the problem. Rather than getting aerated about the mistakes of others, much better and less stressful to focus on doing all you can so you and everyone else gets home safe. If someone makes a mistake and you act to keep you both safe, both of you benefit.

Having been a driver for half a century, I don't think that driving manners have become worse, rather I think that there is a lot more traffic on the roads these days, more motors, more lorries, and despite the road-building that's occurred, the roads are for the most part more crowded.

One thing that hasn't changed is the predilection of lorry drivers to overtake another lorry on a motorway and taking several miles to do it. When two lorries are effectively running in parallel at around 50mph, all other traffic is confined to the fast lane, which then slows down to the slowest motor in it. Newsthump once ran an article on a prize being given to a lorry driver who took from junction 3 to junction 9 on the M1 to overtake another lorry, and the satire seemed only a slight exaggeration.

Poor lane discipline is nothing new. I recall some 30 years back driving on a very empty M25 and a bloke was going at about 50mph in the middle lane. I was in the inside lane at 70mph, and to avoid undertaking him went over to the fast lane to pass him, and then returned to the inside lane. At that speed, on a clear road with no junctions, he should have been driving on the inside lane. When driving at the limit on a three-lane road or motorway with moderate traffic, I tend to keep in the middle lane, as there will usually be someone going slower along the way. If the traffic is light, I'll keep to the inside lane except to overtake slower vehicles, and I'll move to the middle lane when approaching incoming slip-road junctions just in case there is someone joining who hasn't reached a good speed.

One thing which I think has changed is that van drivers don't drive like the clappers these days, but just potter along. I always found it very tempting when driving a van to belt it somewhat, especially in Transits, which were really nippy. Perhaps van are different these days; I've not driven one in many years.

As for comments in previous posts about 'old drivers', I don't think my driving style has changed since when I passed my test at 18 in 1973.

The 2 lane section of the M42 sees a lot of elephant racing. 5 mile hgv overtakes are not uncommon. No point getting frustrated, just take a deep breath, relax and remember you're saving fuel going slower. It's the big traffic jam and many 10 mile long stretches at 50mph with average speed cameras that msinly dictate your journey time.

Whist it's a tad annoying that a journey which used to take 3hrs 10 mins now takes 30-45 min longer, there's sod all I can do about it, so why damage my heath by stressing over it?

Vans: most liveried vans in fleets have tracking these days. And in a big van, keeping to 60-65mph on the motorway makes a significant difference in fuel consumption. Of course, lcvs (which includes the bigger pickups) are max speed 60mph on dual carriageway anyhow.

Worst are the slip roads from service areas, which are often short so the “Bristol gnomes” (to use a railway analogy) are trundling into the traffic at 30mph. If I can see I am following one of those idiots out of the service area, I will hold back so I can join at at a sensible speed.

Ever tried to enter a fast road from a short slip road in anything slower than a reasonably fast car? If not, you should try it sometime. Bit of perspective. Thankfully in Wales the 50mph sections on the M4 where slip roads are short makes it all a bit less frenetic.

Driving is as stressful as you make it for yourself. I drive long distances for work on a regular basis, and I have learned not to let it get to me. Just need to be a little more forgiving of each other.

TPO

 

[Meerkat]

Under no circumstances will I do anything whatsoever to assist a tailgater. I will complete my manoeuvre in an appropriate and safe amount of time. They can sit there and stew until I do.

It helps them and it helps me. The faster they go by the sooner I can get back out again. And maybe there is a really good reason for them being in a hurry.
Tailgating is the only way you can inform someone you want to go by when they are lane hogging (I liked the German way of putting the indicator on, but IIRC that is illegal there now).
Nothing worse than pulling in to let someone go by, only to find they were happy sitting behind you and then proceed to overtake at +3mph, trapping you in and forcing you to slow down.

If I do anything it'll be a very light dab of the brake (so the reds come on but no braking takes place) which usually convinces them to back off a bit.

That’s just dangerous, and makes you as bad as them.
Its all fun and games until that causes a casualty accident.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It helps them and it helps me. The faster they go by the sooner I can get back out again. And maybe there is a really good reason for them being in a hurry.
Tailgating is the only way you can inform someone you want to go by when they are lane hogging (I liked the German way of putting the indicator on, but IIRC that is illegal there now).

DO NOT tailgate. Under any circumstances. Ever.

There are two means the Highway Code states to use to let another driver know of your presence if you feel they may not have seen you and need to - the horn and the headlamps. Use them from a safe and proper distance, but only when it is definitely safe for the other driver to pull in with a Highway Code compliant distance from the vehicles in front of and behind them and when they are not going faster than the next vehicle they're just about to pass - that is, it is NEVER acceptable to bully another driver who just happens to be driving a bit slower than you or is wanting a Highway Code compliant spacing.

Or if they're middle lane hogging simply overtake them. Right lane hogging is very rare in my experience apart from where someone has moved over a bit early to turn right, and is only a moderate problem because once their indicator is on it's legit to pass on the left of them, similarly when traffic is moving in queues.

That’s just dangerous, and makes you as bad as them.
Its all fun and games until that causes a casualty accident.

Absolute rubbish. The tailgater would be the cause of any such accident, though I can't imagine how it would cause one unless someone was also tailgating them, which would then be their fault!

I am NOT talking about brake testing - that is dangerous - just showing reds so they back off.

 

[Meerkat]

Absolute rubbish. The tailgater would be the cause of any such accident, though I can't imagine how it would cause one unless someone was also tailgating them, which would then be their fault!

I am NOT talking about brake testing - that is dangerous - just showing reds so they back off.

That is brake testing. You are colder man than I if you could have a clear conscience after a tailgater crashes/causes a casualty crash due to something you did that you didn't need to do. And of course it is safer to concentrate on what is in front of you
I do try to remind myself of the big consequences of car crashes when I feel the need to react to annoying drivers. I may have a great justification in my head but would I feel so confident saying it in court......

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is brake testing.

No, it's not. Brake testing is where you *actually brake*, not just show reds. I would never, ever do that, that is dangerous to me. (The correct action to deal with a tailgater, incidentally, is to lift off the accelerator and slow gradually to the point where the gap they have left has become safe - showing reds while doing so is actually safer because they may not see the gradual deceleration).

I haven't done it very often, by the way, mostly just ignoring them causes them to either back off or conduct a dangerous undertake without respect to proper spacing as soon as they have chance. I absolutely refuse to move in with dangerous spacing for impatient people when I am driving at the speed limit (normally actual 70 on the motorway which on my car is an indicated 73) - they can wait however much they may flash their BMW/Audi's lights. I will move in when the spacing is safe.

You are colder man than I if you could have a clear conscience after a tailgater crashes/causes a casualty crash due to something you did that you didn't need to do. And of course it is safer to concentrate on what is in front of you
I do try to remind myself of the big consequences of car crashes when I feel the need to react to annoying drivers. I may have a great justification in my head but would I feel so confident saying it in court......

That's not a reaction of annoyance, the tailgating is that. It's a reaction of wishing to ensure my safety to mitigate against the risk of actually needing to brake due to something happening ahead that they haven't seen because they are too close*. And yes, my safety comes above that of others - the tailgater, as things stand, is risking causing *me* a casualty crash. They need to stop it, and showing reds is one way to wake them up (showing hazard lights might be another but I've never done that).

And again to be clear, please do not excuse tailgating. It cannot be excused, ever, even in the face of a lane hogger. I hope you don't do it (it sort of reads like you do) and if so please stop.

* Correct spacing is not only important to ensure you don't rear-end the car in front through inattention - it's also so you can see round and over the cars in front to assess the situation on the road ahead, e.g. is it slowing down, so you can react smoothly.

 

[Meerkat]

No, it's not. Brake testing is where you *actually brake*, not just show reds.

Nope - lighting up your brake lights to make them brake is brake testing, just milder than the absolute loons who actually brake significantly (even to lorries!)

And again to be clear, please do not excuse tailgating. It cannot be excused, ever, even in the face of a lane hogger. I hope you don't do it (it sort of reads like you do) and if so please stop.

Depends what you call tailgating. I don't sit ten yards behind a car that is in a convoy so can't do anything anyway. That's real Audi behaviour.
I will move closer to a solo one as they approach a gap so they know I want them to move in and will quickly go by. I will be able to see in front of them so the risk is significantly less. If they duck in and out for me I often give them a quick left right indicators as a thank you.
If you sit back at the Highway Code distance (which barely anyone does if its stacking up) then the muppets don't even know you are there or think you are happy going at that speed and will never move in. There is just no culture of moving in whenever you can (which was wonderful last time I was in Germany a few years back)
As I said I liked the (now illegal?) thing the Germans did by indicating left, much less aggressive than flashing headlights which is just distracting to everyone around. Not so keen on the 50mph+ closing speeds when they are going full German though!

Of course peak lane hogging is having your fog light on as well!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nope - lighting up your brake lights to make them brake is brake testing, just milder than the absolute loons who actually brake significantly (even to lorries!)

Totally disagree, we'll have to agree to differ on this one. Brake testing is testing whether someone can brake or not. To do that you need to decelerate!

Depends what you call tailgating. I don't sit ten yards behind a car that is in a convoy so can't do anything anyway. That's real Audi behaviour.

Tailgating is where you drive closer than is safe to someone to make a point, which puts you in a position where you cannot be sure to stop in time if that person has to, for a reason unknown to you (no guarantee you will see a hazard in front of them, it could be something like a pothole or a bird), execute an emergency stop.

You should never move closer to another driver to make a point. Ever.

I will move closer to a solo one as they approach a gap so they know I want them to move in and will quickly go by. I will be able to see in front of them so the risk is significantly less. If they duck in and out for me I often give them a quick left right indicators as a thank you.

You don't have the right to do that. IF it is safe I will duck in, but I will under no circumstances compromise safe spacing to do that - you must wait - in particular because you will be breaking the law (speeding) if you ever do it to me as I drive bang on the limit on my limiter (actual 70 by GPS, not indicated 70).

Also, please don't take my space to abort my manoeuvre until I have fully completed it and turned my indicator off. It's just impatient and puts us both at risk. When moving from right to middle it's always possible someone will pull out at the same time and there has to be space to abort if they do. Too many BMW/Audi drivers sneak past in half a lane as soon as I've started to move left.

Of course peak lane hogging is having your fog light on as well!

Quite.

 

[londiscape]

Also, please don't take my space to abort my manoeuvre until I have fully completed it and turned my indicator off. It's just impatient and puts us both at risk. When moving from right to middle it's always possible someone will pull out at the same time and there has to be space to abort if they do. Too many BMW/Audi drivers sneak past in half a lane as soon as I've started to move left.

Definitely agree with this one. Haven't been driving for that long, but after a couple of nasty scares soon after passing and starting motorway driving this is one of the top things to watch out for. If I'm overtaking in L3 I'll now watch carefully for anything in L1 that looks as if it's going to pull into L2, if so I'll either a) give it a poke to get ahead if there's no cops or cameras or B) if there are, wait there at speed limit until pulling back in at less risk.

Since then not had this problem myself (nothing like a near miss to educate oneself), but it's still commonplace enough that I see it happen to traffic in front of me very regularly, another reason not to tailgate!

 

[Dr_Paul]

Vans: most liveried vans in fleets have tracking these days. And in a big van, keeping to 60-65mph on the motorway makes a significant difference in fuel consumption. Of course, lcvs (which includes the bigger pickups) are max speed 60mph on dual carriageway anyhow.

Ever tried to enter a fast road from a short slip road in anything slower than a reasonably fast car? If not, you should try it sometime. Bit of perspective. Thankfully in Wales the 50mph sections on the M4 where slip roads are short makes it all a bit less frenetic.

That explains why vans don't go around like the clappers as they used to do. Back in the 1970s and 1980s I often drove a Transit from London to one or another northern city, and I'd quite happily cruise along the motorway for mile after mile at 70mph.

There are some really short slip-roads on to the A3 between Roehampton and Hook, barely a hundred yards long, with approach roads that are either on a sharp curve or at right-angles to the main road. The A3 is a three-lane, 50mph road with usually very heavy traffic, and using one of these slip-roads can often be a hairy experience, as one can't get much speed up when doing so. When driving along the A3 and approaching any of these junctions, I go into the middle lane, just in case someone is joining the main road.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Definitely agree with this one. Haven't been driving for that long, but after a couple of nasty scares soon after passing and starting motorway driving this is one of the top things to watch out for. If I'm overtaking in L3 I'll now watch carefully for anything in L1 that looks as if it's going to pull into L2, if so I'll either a) give it a poke to get ahead if there's no cops or cameras or B) if there are, wait there at speed limit until pulling back in at less risk.

Since then not had this problem myself (nothing like a near miss to educate oneself), but it's still commonplace enough that I see it happen to traffic in front of me very regularly, another reason not to tailgate!

Indeed.

A good general rule is "never change lane directly alongside another vehicle as there's a very good chance they won't see you doing it", but because people often don't keep recommended spacing it can sometimes be difficult to avoid.

This is why I always indicate in even though it's not officially required - it adds to the chance that someone looking to make a conflicting movement will see me. (No need if moving middle to left as there's no potential conflict there, though I still tend to out of sheer habit*).

* I disagree with the view some profess of "only indicate if you can see someone it will benefit" - you may not have seen the road user it benefits, and as long as it's not potentially confusing (e.g. indicating left near a left turning when not taking it) it has no disadvantage.

 

[Meerkat]

This is why I always indicate in even though it's not officially required - it adds to the chance that someone looking to make a conflicting movement will see me. (No need if moving middle to left as there's no potential conflict there, though I still tend to out of sheer habit*).

* I disagree with the view some profess of "only indicate if you can see someone it will benefit" - you may not have seen the road user it benefits, and as long as it's not potentially confusing (e.g. indicating left near a left turning when not taking it) it has no disadvantage.

I really try to be in the habit of ALWAYS indicating, because if you always indicate then you will always indicate. If you only bother when you think someone needs to know then one day you will get it wrong or just forget
Just can't manage it at roundabouts though - the number of times I chunter away at someone on the roundabout not indicating then realise that I'm not either.......

I have started to change lane on the motorway a lot more recently. The prevalence of gantry cameras enforcing an unreasonably low speed limit means motorway driving is boring to a level that tests concentration, so I have to do something to make me think what I am doing. Unfortunately its limited by lane 1s that are often so lorry rutted that my car tramlines too disconcertingly.
Though I have to be really bored to bother going lane 1 - lane 4 - lane 1 to go round the idiots chugging along in lane 3 on a near empty motorway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though I have to be really bored to bother going lane 1 - lane 4 - lane 1 to go round the idiots chugging along in lane 3 on a near empty motorway.

I'll usually stay in 1 for that too, there is an empty lane buffer between me and them for safety. Whereas I will normally go round someone who is hogging lane 2 because the risk of passing on the left when they're clearly inattentive is much higher, even if it might not be technically illegal if you didn't change lane to do it. And it can be fun sometimes to just do the overtake absolutely perfectly, and it does sometimes wake them up

 

[lachlan]

I really try to be in the habit of ALWAYS indicating, because if you always indicate then you will always indicate. If you only bother when you think someone needs to know then one day you will get it wrong or just forget
Just can't manage it at roundabouts though - the number of times I chunter away at someone on the roundabout not indicating then realise that I'm not either.......

I have started to change lane on the motorway a lot more recently. The prevalence of gantry cameras enforcing an unreasonably low speed limit means motorway driving is boring to a level that tests concentration, so I have to do something to make me think what I am doing. Unfortunately its limited by lane 1s that are often so lorry rutted that my car tramlines too disconcertingly.
Though I have to be really bored to bother going lane 1 - lane 4 - lane 1 to go round the idiots chugging along in lane 3 on a near empty motorway.

If everyone could indicate on roundabouts it would make life as a pedestrian and cyclist much easier. I've been nearly knocked down by drivers exiting roundabouts while not indicating or indicating right! The roads are so busy it's difficult enough to cross as it is.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

If everyone could indicate on roundabouts it would make life as a pedestrian and cyclist much easier. I've been nearly knocked down by drivers exiting roundabouts while not indicating or indicating right! The roads are so busy it's difficult enough to cross as it is.

I agree, I basically never see anyone signalling on a roundabout except if they're taking the first exit (and if they're signalling right they don't signal left when they should).

Roundabouts are incredible for traffic flow, but are bad for crossing when busy.

 

[jfollows]

I agree, I basically never see anyone signalling on a roundabout except if they're taking the first exit (and if they're signalling right they don't signal left when they should).

Roundabouts are incredible for traffic flow, but are bad for crossing when busy.

You probably saw me because I always indicate …. but I agree that vast numbers don’t or get it wrong if they do.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does help if they do, but I don't trust it - I always look for which way the front wheels are turning and if they change position.

 

[lachlan]

It does help if they do, but I don't trust it - I always look for which way the front wheels are turning and if they change position.

Good shout - didn't think of looking at the wheels. If only the speed limit was lower and/or there was proper cycle infrastructure, I'd feel safe actually using the roundabout on my bike instead of skirting around the outside and crossing over it...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good shout - didn't think of looking at the wheels. If only the speed limit was lower and/or there was proper cycle infrastructure, I'd feel safe actually using the roundabout on my bike instead of skirting around the outside and crossing over it...

Speed limit is probably a bit moot - other than places like Milton Keynes where people are used to roundabouts and do take them quite fast, the usual sort of speed people do on them is sub 20mph.

I totally agree Dutch style cycle infrastructure is a very good thing.

 

[Meerkat]

I'll usually stay in 1 for that too, there is an empty lane buffer between me and them for safety. Whereas I will normally go round someone who is hogging lane 2 because the risk of passing on the left when they're clearly inattentive is much higher, even if it might not be technically illegal if you didn't change lane to do it. And it can be fun sometimes to just do the overtake absolutely perfectly, and it does sometimes wake them up

If there is a hard shoulder I don’t mind doing it to a lane 2 hogger, but usually only if going round would mean getting stuck behind them waiting for a gap in the lane 3 overtaking traffic. Have managed that 3 of us simultaneously overtook a muppet doing <70 in lane 3 of 4. Huge empty motorway in front of them, major congestion behind as most of 4 lanes squeezed into one to go round
Dont really know how the police can catch them though (tbf they might be stupid enough not to notice a marked car follow them for a while!). Unless they use dashcam footage (restricted by only those doing <70 wanting to send it in!) or a series of cctv clips.

If everyone could indicate on roundabouts it would make life as a pedestrian and cyclist much easier. I've been nearly knocked down by drivers exiting roundabouts while not indicating or indicating right! The roads are so busy it's difficult enough to cross as it is.

An issue sometimes is that the design of roundabouts and their approaches means that indicators self cancel at awkward moments - hands on wheel not near indicators or changing gear.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there is a hard shoulder I don’t mind doing it to a lane 2 hogger, but usually only if going round would mean getting stuck behind them waiting for a gap in the lane 3 overtaking traffic. Have managed that 3 of us simultaneously overtook a muppet doing <70 in lane 3 of 4. Huge empty motorway in front of them, major congestion behind as most of 4 lanes squeezed into one to go round
Dont really know how the police can catch them though (tbf they might be stupid enough not to notice a marked car follow them for a while!). Unless they use dashcam footage (restricted by only those doing <70 wanting to send it in!) or a series of cctv clips.

Like pretty much every petty-crime issue there is, this is all down to the move away from in-person enforcement and towards everything being done by camera. I suppose AI cameras will start dealing with it (just like they can now do seat belt offences and mobile phone use, with a human just doing a quick check to make sure before sending the prosecution paperwork out) but really we need to properly fund the Police so we can turn the Traffic Officers back into people with enforcement capability and similarly get Police on foot/cycle beat around towns (particularly town centres) so you actually see them from day to day.

I can go weeks without seeing a Police Officer - we're about the only country where that's the case.

 

[OscarH]

Like pretty much every petty-crime issue there is, this is all down to the move away from in-person enforcement and towards everything being done by camera. I suppose AI cameras will start dealing with it (just like they can now do seat belt offences and mobile phone use, with a human just doing a quick check to make sure before sending the prosecution paperwork out) but really we need to properly fund the Police so we can turn the Traffic Officers back into people with enforcement capability and similarly get Police on foot/cycle beat around towns (particularly town centres) so you actually see them from day to day.

I can go weeks without seeing a Police Officer - we're about the only country where that's the case.

Yeah, have to agree with this. A vast amount of the issues on our roads is because of over-the-top blunt camera enforcement rather than having actual police using common sense and discretion to target the most dangerous behaviour

 

[jfollows]

Yeah, have to agree with this. A vast amount of the issues on our roads is because of over-the-top blunt camera enforcement rather than having actual police using common sense and discretion to target the most dangerous behaviour

Maybe, but that’s because we have voted for their budgets to be cut and given them stupid and unenforceable laws that we expect to see them do something about. Camera enforcement with all its negative outcomes has been the inevitable result.

 

[OscarH]

Maybe, but that’s because we have voted for their budgets to be cut and given them stupid and unenforceable laws that we expect to see them do something about. Camera enforcement with all its negative outcomes has been the inevitable result.

Absolutely, I don't blame the police for this, it's the natural result of budget cut after budget cut

 

[Meerkat]

Like pretty much every petty-crime issue there is, this is all down to the move away from in-person enforcement and towards everything being done by camera. I suppose AI cameras will start dealing with it (just like they can now do seat belt offences and mobile phone use, with a human just doing a quick check to make sure before sending the prosecution paperwork out) but really we need to properly fund the Police so we can turn the Traffic Officers back into people with enforcement capability and similarly get Police on foot/cycle beat around towns (particularly town centres) so you actually see them from day to day.

I can go weeks without seeing a Police Officer - we're about the only country where that's the case.

Do you not leave the house?
Thing is a marked car is only going to catch the really clueless lane hoggers, and unmarked cars tend to mooch about below 70 - they would need to speed around (or slow right down) to be likely to see many lane hoggers and I don’t think they like going too fast due to the bad precedent it sets.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Indeed.

A good general rule is "never change lane directly alongside another vehicle as there's a very good chance they won't see you doing it", but because people often don't keep recommended spacing it can sometimes be difficult to avoid.

This is why I always indicate in even though it's not officially required - it adds to the chance that someone looking to make a conflicting movement will see me. (No need if moving middle to left as there's no potential conflict there, though I still tend to out of sheer habit*).

* I disagree with the view some profess of "only indicate if you can see someone it will benefit" - you may not have seen the road user it benefits, and as long as it's not potentially confusing (e.g. indicating left near a left turning when not taking it) it has no disadvantage.

Yes I always indicate regardless of an audience. But it amazes me how many people seem to be scared of wearing their indicators out !.

If everyone could indicate on roundabouts it would make life as a pedestrian and cyclist much easier. I've been nearly knocked down by drivers exiting roundabouts while not indicating or indicating right! The roads are so busy it's difficult enough to cross as it is.

What catches me out are the people who indicate too early so I think they are turning off the roundabout when they are in fact staying on it past my entry point.

It does help if they do, but I don't trust it - I always look for which way the front wheels are turning and if they change position.

I have done that since my motorbiking days (early 1980s). I have also found I can often guess what a driver is doing based on how they look around - not so easy nowadays with the predominance of tinted windows often in cars driven by erratic drivers.

Like pretty much every petty-crime issue there is, this is all down to the move away from in-person enforcement and towards everything being done by camera. I suppose AI cameras will start dealing with it (just like they can now do seat belt offences and mobile phone use, with a human just doing a quick check to make sure before sending the prosecution paperwork out) but really we need to properly fund the Police so we can turn the Traffic Officers back into people with enforcement capability and similarly get Police on foot/cycle beat around towns (particularly town centres) so you actually see them from day to day.

I can go weeks without seeing a Police Officer - we're about the only country where that's the case.

Same here except at School chucking out time when walking the town centre I will see several pairs of bobbies on the beat - but then this is Croydon !.

I find it a little ironic that they can penalise motorists for minor things (down to entering a school road) due to the car having a registration number on it BUT they have no chance of catching or punishing knife carrying hooded young lads !.