My son received a penalty.

[leggy001]

My son travelled to Birmingham NEC, he suffers with anxiety and panic attacks. He allowed his friend to purchase the train tickets on his behalf. To attempt to avoid the worry.
Unbeknownst to him his friend purchased the incorrect tickets.
His friend was allowed to pay the fare difference as he is Irish (Belfast UK).
He showed the conductor his UK driving license.
However my son was issued a fine. We have attempted to appeal but it has been refused twice.
We have explained that he suffers with anxiety etc, his friend is Irish but produced UK ID but they refuse to accept our appeal.
It seems really unfair that his friend was allowed to pay the difference but my son has been penalised.
Any advise going forward would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Haywain]

It seems really unfair that his friend was allowed to pay the difference but my son has been penalised.

However unfair that may seem it does not provide a get out clause.

 

[ikcdab]

Hi and welcome to the forum. You need to post more details as, clearly, this does not make sense if they both had tickets that were invalid in the same way. There must have been something else - where you live has no bearing on it. It might be (for example) that they bought railcard discounted off-peak tickets and used them on a peak train. And that the friend had a railcard, but your son did not. So the friend would just get an excess fare, but your son was issued a penalty. I am guessing, but there must have been something else.

Exactly what tickets did they buy? Did either of them have a railcard? what ages are they?
Which railway company was it?
If you can upload copies of any paperwork (with identifying details obscured) we might be able to dig down a bit more.
The health issues you quote are not a reason for a penalty to be appealed.
Please post more info so that we can understand exactly what went on.

 

[WesternLancer]

Sounds like a case of a member of staff who perhaps thought Northern Ireland was another country

It seems to be the case that people who live overseas do sometimes get treated less severely on the basis that they have made a mistake, unlikely to do it again as they will go back overseas, and the money is got then and there. UK residents (obv not NI UK residents) have a higher risk of getting reported for investigation of a higher penalty.

Worth posting a copy of the Penalty to see if experts here can see any reason why it has been incorrectly issued.

However, the Appeal process isn't about someone looking at it and seeing 'is this fair?' but about establishing if there are grounds for an appeal as set down in the Penalty Fare regulations and law. So unless those grounds exist (which is why it would help to see a copy of the document) an Appeal will be unsuccessful.

Sorry if this is not the news you want to hear.

But if you can share the document(s) and responses to earlier appeals - with personal details removed - then experts can check if there is something that might work at the 3rd appeal stage.

 

[RPI]

This does seem bizarre as a Northern Ireland address can be used for a revenue protection sanction, as it is in the UK.

 

[Gloster]

If you do post the paperwork given to him by the inspector, please make sure that you obscure any identifying details, such as name, address or reference numbers.

Did the inspector treat the them as two people travelling together, or could s/he have thought that they were travelling separately? If the inspector thought they were travelling separately, who was dealt with first? (Note: these details are unlikely to provide a ground for a challenge, but might explain things.)

 

[greyman42]

Sounds like a case of a member of staff who perhaps thought Northern Ireland was another country

If the member of staff seriously thought that Northern Ireland was another country then frankly they are thick.

 

[Gloster]

If the member of staff seriously thought that Northern Ireland was another country then frankly they are thick.

Never be surprised at such things. I was asked by somebody less than ten years ago if you needed passports for the Isle of Wight.

 

[WesternLancer]

If the member of staff seriously thought that Northern Ireland was another country then frankly they are thick.

Well it would seem odd for sure, but I have come across this. I’d like to hope there is another reason behind the differing treatment.

 

[greyman42]

Never be surprised at such things. I was asked by somebody less than ten years ago if you needed passports for the Isle of Wight.

Well you live and learn.

Well it would seem odd for sure, but I have come across this. I’d like to hope there is another reason behind the differing treatment.

It does seem a bit bizarre.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I think we're disappearing down a rabbit-hole. The fact they were treated differently doesn't make it grounds for appeal. We'd be better concentrating on helping the OP with that. But we do need the paperwork to be posted first.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think we're disappearing down a rabbit-hole. The fact they were treated differently doesn't make it grounds for appeal. We'd be better concentrating on helping the OP with that. But we do need the paperwork to be posted first.

Agreed - please do post the paperwork here @leggy001 so we can see if the notice was correctly made out. And please let us know:

- the exact journey being made
- the exact ticket held (type, price, and any discount)
- if any railcards were used or claimed