Northern re-records 34 station name announcements with local pronunciation

[jfollows]

Celia does have a correct pronunciation of Sandbach which was in use at Wilmslow until recently but they seem to have swapped it back to the old recording. Sharing below as this is not a Worldline system.

Interesting, thank you, that explains why I hadn't noticed the error until relatively recently because it now stands out again. Poor lack of attention to detail. It just grates to hear it - since starting to be a regular traveller by train in September 1970 I've never heard it mis-pronounced by a real human announcer, but someone can't be bothered to check an automated announcement which is likely to be repeated thousands of times over the years.

EDIT Plus I suspect that automated announcements for Holborn, Marylebone and Southwark are rarely wrong, and corrected quickly if they are.

 

[D6130]

“We will be calling at the following principal stations”

I can never understand why this - and certain other - TOCs say this. It implies that the train will also stop at other stations which are not considered to be important enough to be mentioned. Better to say "We shall be calling at the following stations"....or better still "We shall be calling at...." followed by the list of stops. Note that it is grammatically more correct to use "shall" , rather than "will", with the first person "I" or "We". (Sorry....my late mother was an English teacher and I had things like that drummed into me from an early age!)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I can never understand why this - and certain other - TOCs say this. It implies that the train will also stop at other stations which are not considered to be important enough to be mentioned. Better to say "We shall be calling at the following stations"....or better still "We shall be calling at...." followed by the list of stops. Note that it is grammatically more correct to use "shall" , rather than "will", with the first person "I" or "We". (Sorry....my late mother was an English teacher and I had things like that drummed into me from an early age!)

“Shall” is deemed an archaic/antiquated term and is no longer considered part of contemporary English.

 

[D6130]

“Shall” is deemed an archaic/antiquated term and is no longer considered part of contemporary English.

My late mother was an archaic/antiquated English teacher!

 

[eldomtom2]

“Shall” is deemed an archaic/antiquated term and is no longer considered part of contemporary English.

[citation needed]

 

[stadler]

I’ve noticed that recently the announcement has changed slightly, and the bloke has re-recorded the first part where he used to say, “This is the Northern service tuh…” In the new announcement it’s now a more standard “to”.

I noticed that recently. I remember that because they had people complaining about the "tuh" they got Laura Palmer to say "this is the Northern service to" followed by Peter Corley doing the rest of the announcement which sounded terrible with two voices mixed. It is good they finally got him to record it again.

"Ther next stershun stop". Sounds terrible... uses the same manner of speaking as Arriva Trains Wales 2005 tourettes lady from the 175s. Unsuitable for train announcements.

The misnomer of Yorkshire passengers liking this - I've heard several wanting to pull the train's speakers out.

Someone ring Julie Berry.

On the 150 153 158 769 it does sound better as it is purely Ruth Mitchell rather than the 175 mix of Alison Forster and Ruth Mitchell in the same sentences.

Is that the same Alison Forster who was formerly Managing Director of First Great Western....and - when I was a guard at Brighton in the 1980s - Station Manager at Eastbourne?

Yes the same exact Alison Forster indeed. The former FGW managing director. She originally voiced all of the automated announcements on the FNW 175s and FGW 180s when they were introduced. She also did some generic announcements used on the FGW HSTs as well.

Think she was called Ruth. You could picture her slowly beating someone up as she recorded those announcements. CIA probably used her in Guantanamo alongside Rick Astley's Greatest Hits and An Evening with James Corden. Truly awful and patronising, nothing like Phil Sayer or Julie Berry.

I know that some people are not a fan of her but i personally i really like Ruth Mitchell and think she has a nice sounding voice. She is certainly good for a staff member. Far better than other staff members like Matt or Anne or most of the other Worldline announcers.

But if you think she is bad you should hear Elin Llwyd (the new voice on the TFW 197 231 398 756 MK4 trains) who is one of worst announcers ever in my opinion. Very loud harsh grating voice. Elin Llwyd also pronounces everything wrong too. Her "llan" stations are particularly bad. Llanelli sounds hideous. She also pronounces St Pancras as "Saint Pancreas" which is quite shocking considering it is a major and easy to pronounce station.

Ruth Mitchell (the current TFW 150 153 158 175 769 and TFW stations announcer) is from Truro in Cornwall and manages to pronounce every Welsh station perfectly but yet Elin Llwyd who is from Wales messes up so many of them. They should have kept Ruth Mitchell instead. That would have been better.

I can never understand why this - and certain other - TOCs say this. It implies that the train will also stop at other stations which are not considered to be important enough to be mentioned. Better to say "We shall be calling at the following stations"....or better still "We shall be calling at...." followed by the list of stops. Note that it is grammatically more correct to use "shall" , rather than "will", with the first person "I" or "We". (Sorry....my late mother was an English teacher and I had things like that drummed into me from an early age!)

On the TFW 150 153 158 175 769 it says "we will be calling at the following principal stations" as some trains call at request stops and the request stops are not listed in the automated announcements. So their definition of "principal station" is anything which is not a request stop. But on many TFW services there are no request stops. They should really just get rid of this wording and list the request stops in the calling pattern like other TOCs do.

Even worse is that the Avanti 221s use the same "calling at the following principal stations" script.

This is despite the fact that every single station that Avanti serve is a "principal station" so it makes this script completely and utterly pointless.

“Shall” is deemed an archaic/antiquated term and is no longer considered part of contemporary English.

I still use "shall" regularly. As do a lot of my friends and family. I never thought of it as an outdated word. But maybe the younger generation do not use it as much.

But the one and only automated announcements that have used "shall" are the old Scotrail "Sonya" voice who was used up until 2005 when Fletcher Mathers replaced her.

She also had the most miserable sounding voice. The only more miserable sounding one is Caroline Josephs used on the TPE units. What was funny is the Scotrail "Sonya" sounded terrible but the male voice that came after her for safety announcement was excellent. He had such a nice voice.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

[citation needed]

Exactly. Says who?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

“Shall” is deemed an archaic/antiquated term and is no longer considered part of contemporary English.

Really? Who's made that claim? (Edit: Might possibly be a U.S. source).

 

[robspaceman]

As I was taught it in school, “shall” is correctly used these days only in the first person (ie I/we).
For the second and third person (you/he-she-it-they) you’re meant to use “will”.
Hence saying “the train shall call at”, being third person, is incorrect.

 

[oldman]

This, from thesaurus.com, is a good guide to current English usage.

The traditional rule of future tense says that shall is used in the first person (I shall eat lunch) and will is used in all other persons (you will eat lunch, she will eat lunch). In practice, most English speakers do not follow this rule and the two words are often considered to be interchangeable when forming the future tense. That being said, will is much more commonly used for this purpose and shall is typically only used to sound more formal or old-fashioned.

 

[Wolfie]

This, from thesaurus.com, is a good guide to current English usage.

While l don't wholly disagree l would note that most if not all ".com" websites are of US origin. US and UK usage are not always the same. Shall is used an awful lot in contracts and similar commercial documentation.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I still use "shall" regularly. As do a lot of my friends and family. I never thought of it as an outdated word. But maybe the younger generation do not use it as much.

Well I'm 27 and I use 'shall' all the time - as well as 'whom', 'mayn't', and other so-called archaisms! Everyone is different.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

...'mayn't'...

Now that, perhaps, is one contraction that has fallen out of common use. And quite possibly did so a century ago!

 

[prod_pep]

'Shall' is not an archaic or antiquated term. That is nonsense.

 

[Irascible]

This, from thesaurus.com, is a good guide to current English usage.

American english, in that case. Quickest way to test a lot of these sites is to put a word like "colour" in & see if it either doesn't have it - like this one doesn't - or flags it as a foreign spelling. "Shall" is certainly not antiquainted, just a bit formal for everyday use ( most people probably just say "I'll" anyway unless it's a response, you can't tell what word they're contracting ).

 

[bramling]

Interesting, thank you, that explains why I hadn't noticed the error until relatively recently because it now stands out again. Poor lack of attention to detail. It just grates to hear it - since starting to be a regular traveller by train in September 1970 I've never heard it mis-pronounced by a real human announcer, but someone can't be bothered to check an automated announcement which is likely to be repeated thousands of times over the years.

EDIT Plus I suspect that automated announcements for Holborn, Marylebone and Southwark are rarely wrong, and corrected quickly if they are.

There have certainly been some incorrect versions of Holborn, and for some years the C stock had Plaistow completely wrong. The Northern Line has also had Highgate slightly wrong for the best part of 25 years, as she says it in the way one would expect to hear Harrogate pronounced, which isn’t quite correct for Highgate.

 

[trainophile]

Is “t“ instead of “to” a Northern thing? Very noticeable on the Scarborough/Sheffield 170s. It’s actually getting on my nerves a bit.

Edited to correct Class no.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is “t“ instead of “to” a Northern thing?

I would say so, although its use is probably not uniform across Yorkshire / Northern England. Essentially it's local dialect being used in place of more standardised English.

 

[urbophile]

Is “t“ instead of “to” a Northern thing? Very noticeable on the Scarborough/Sheffield 170s. It’s actually getting on my nerves a bit.

Edited to correct Class no.

Do you mean Northern as in the train company, or northern as in regional pronunciation? T' for the definite article is of course Yorkshire dialect (and sometimes in Lancashire); that is hardly pronounced, simply a slight click before the following word. As a pronunciation of 'to' I've only ever heard a more vocalised sound - something like 'ter' (without of course the R being pronounced, just indicating the longer schwa vowel). Depending on the context and the emphasis, I'd have thought that would be heard all over England at least. It wouldn't sound at all unnatural in the course of normal flowing speech, but of course recorded announcements are more artificial and there is an inevitable pause between 'to' and the list of destinations. In that case a more deliberately-sounded 'tu' (like too but slightly shorter) would be better.

Rarely travelling on Northern trains I'm unsure what people are referring to by 't'' and 'tuh'.

 

[sheff1]

Do you mean Northern as in the train company, or northern as in regional pronunciation? T' for the definite article is of course Yorkshire dialect (and sometimes in Lancashire); that is hardly pronounced, simply a slight click before the following word.

Rarely travelling on Northern trains I'm unsure what people are referring to by 't'' and 'tuh'.

The 't/tuh' on the Northern announcements is different (more pronounced) to the more common thing you hear round here (but certainly not across all of Yorkshire)* which, as you say, is hardly pronounced at all. The latter is quite difficult to master for someone not brought up in the area - after living here for many decades I can make a pretty good attempt which would convince most southerners, but a born and bred local would no doubt quickly out me as an imposter.

* I think someone said the person who made the Northern announcements was from York ..... or, should I say, Yark.

 

[northwichcat]

After travelling on one of the new TfW Rail units yesterday between Crewe and Chester I would say the female Welsh voice for the English language annoucements is a good choice and wouldn't be any more out-of-place for Northern's North West annoucements than Yorkshire Pete. I don't understand the logic of TfW having Welsh language annoucements first on a service that doesn't even serve a Welsh station.

 

[ricoblade]

Yep - This changed noticeably for me last week in Northern-land, whereas the week before it had still been the "tuh".

Rode on an old-fashioned "tuh" unit last week, ah the nostalgia!

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

After travelling on one of the new TfW Rail units yesterday between Crewe and Chester I would say the female Welsh voice for the English language annoucements is a good choice

I wonder why the station announcers weren't used - no longer available? I find the long gap before the station name irritating, and I'm not sure I need to be welcomed to each lovely place along the way. Also the screens are like an explosion in a point size factory, if you're lucky to get to the calling pattern or connections, these seem much too small for me compared with the other less useful stuff. Wedi sylwi, wedi sôn, wedi'i sortio

I don't understand the logic of TfW having Welsh language annoucements first on a service that doesn't even serve a Welsh station.

TfW's style, I suppose, with a bit of politics, and I don't think that's a bad thing but something more like what Belgian railways do where the languages are included and ordered as appropriate to the location would have been an improvement. Something like only English for Crewe - Chester and English first on a train visiting Wales but while travelling in England. I think it's absolutely right to have Welsh first while in Wales

 

[stadler]

I wonder why the station announcers weren't used - no longer available? I find the long gap before the station name irritating, and I'm not sure I need to be welcomed to each lovely place along the way. Also the screens are like an explosion in a point size factory, if you're lucky to get to the calling pattern or connections, these seem much too small for me compared with the other less useful stuff. Wedi sylwi, wedi sôn, wedi'i sortio


TfW's style, I suppose, with a bit of politics, and I don't think that's a bad thing but something more like what Belgian railways do where the languages are included and ordered as appropriate to the location would have been an improvement. Something like only English for Crewe - Chester and English first on a train visiting Wales but while travelling in England. I think it's absolutely right to have Welsh first while in Wales

The station announcers are Ruth Michell (English) and Eryl Jones (Welsh). The new onboard announcers are Elin Llwyd (English) and Eryl Jones (Welsh). So the Welsh onboard announcer (Eryl Jones) on the new trains is in fact the same exact person as at the stations. Eryl Jones does the Welsh announcements at stations and onboard the new trains.

Only the English announcer is different. They used Elin Llwyd instead of Ruth Michell because they wanted a Welsh accent. Ruth Michell is from Cornwall and has a standard English accent so TFW went for Elin Llwyd instead to voice the English announcements on the new trains. They plan to replace Ruth Michell with Elin Llwyd on the station announcements eventually too. It seems that TFW want everything as Welsh sounding as possible so an English accent was no longer acceptable for them.

It is a real shame as Ruth Michell sounds so much better and she is certainly still available for doing new recordings. She still does updates for the station announcements. I am not a fan of the new Elin Llwyd announcements at all. She has a very harsh grating voice that becomes very annoying to listen to. Ruth Michell sounds so much better. She has a much more pleasant voice and i find her very nice to listen to.

 

[ricoblade]

I wonder why the station announcers weren't used - no longer available?

I remember the Sheffield lady station announcer from the 80s and can still "do" her voice.

 

[northwichcat]

TfW's style, I suppose, with a bit of politics, and I don't think that's a bad thing but something more like what Belgian railways do where the languages are included and ordered as appropriate to the location would have been an improvement. Something like only English for Crewe - Chester and English first on a train visiting Wales but while travelling in England. I think it's absolutely right to have Welsh first while in Wales

What certain politicans don't want to admit is in some parts of Wales the Welsh language is widely spoken, but in others parts, even people who are 100% Welsh, have little knowledge of it.

It does come across very much that they have stuck Welsh in everything they have direct control over and not got involved where they don't. For example, if you travel from Manchester to North Wales on a direct train you get Welsh first throughout. However, if the direct train is cancelled and you have to catch Northern, followed by Avanti it's very different.

 

[johntea]

Bonus generic announcement now

“Thank you for travelling with Northern today we hope you have a pleasant onward journey!”

It’s a male voice but certainly not Yorkshire Peter!

 

[stadler]

Bonus generic announcement now

“Thank you for travelling with Northern today we hope you have a pleasant onward journey!”

It’s a male voice but certainly not Yorkshire Peter!

Yes i heard him recently. Yet another new voice. The announcements onboard Northern are a complete and utter mess now. They keep unnecessarily introducing new voices for one or two phrases.

So now we have 10 different voices being used onboard Northern trains:

• Peter Corley - The new main voice. Now used on most of the trains.

• Laura Palmer - The new safety voice. Rolled out recently. But now they appear to be getting rid of her for some unknown reason. She is still on a few units but not many.

• Unknown Male 1 - This is a new male voice used for the "Headbolt Lane" recording only on a couple units. Peter Corley has already recorded this but for some reason they have also got this unknown man to record it too. But he is only on a few units with Peter Corley on most of them. It is very odd. Most likely a staff member.

• Unknown Male 2 - This is a new male voice used for the "thank you for travelling with Northern" recording. This has starting being rolled out very recently. I have no idea why they have gotten a new man to record this instead of getting Peter Corley to do it. Most likely a staff member.

• Unknown Male 3 - This is a new male voice used for short platform announcements. He has started being rolled out very recently. Originally it was Laura Palmer but now they have gotten this new man to do the short platform announcements. Most likely a staff member.

• Unknown Male 4 - Geordie voice who does safety announcements. This was the original safety voice used for a brief period before Seb was introduced. He has a Geordie accent and he does various safety announcements and the BTP announcement. However some units still have this voice. I have noticed him on three different units in the past couple months.

• Unknown Male 5 - Corona Virus announcements voice. This is a very well spoken male RP voice used for the Corona Virus announcements. He just does announcements about social distancing and was introduced when Corona Virus started. I thought he was long gone but his Corona Virus announcements were still playing on one unit i was on last month. So at least one train still has him.

• Trisha Jarman - The old main voice of the trains. She is currently being replaced but a few units still have her.

• Seb - The old safety voice of the trains. He is currently being replaced but a few units still have him.

• Dan Strauss - The voice of the Class 333 units. He was meant to be replaced over a year ago but the rollout of TrainFX seems to be delayed. Hopefully it continues to be delayed as he has a brilliant voice.

So it is an utter mess with 10 voices in use that are currently in use.

I thought i remember Northern saying one of the reason for changing the voices was to standardise things and reduce the amount of voices. But this has not happened. In fact they have just made it worse and introduced even more voices. What an utter mess.

 

[The exile]

“Shall” is deemed an archaic/antiquated term and is no longer considered part of contemporary English.

By whom?

 

[Wolfie]

“Shall” is deemed an archaic/antiquated term and is no longer considered part of contemporary English.

Certainly in legislation and proscriptive policy it very definitely is still in use.