Northern Short Forming Again

[sportzbar]

Currently on the 12.04 to Liverpool Lime Street and it's only a two car 195 with people forced to stand and no air conditioning working.

This is completely unacceptable by Northern. Short forming services once again.

It’s about time something was done about the disgraceful practice.

Just left Halifax and now it’s crush loaded.

The guard has requested to set down only because no one else can get on.

Sad state of affairs.

So please do tell us what your solution for this sad state of affairs is....?

 

[Andyh82]

The 2 car 195s should never have been ordered, except for a very specific reason nothing on Northern should be less than 3 cars

 

[MichaelTrains]

So please do tell us what your solution for this sad state of affairs is....?

Never run two car 195s between four of the biggest cities in the country.

Leeds - Bradford - Manchester - Liverpool

 

[skyhigh]

Never run two car 195s between four of the biggest cities in the country.

Leeds - Bradford - Manchester - Liverpool

And if there's zero spare units available, how do you do that?

Currently on the 12.04 to Liverpool Lime Street and it's only a two car 195

Was booked for 2x 195/0s. The second 195 failed on Neville Hill this morning with a fault meaning that it couldn't go into service. No serviceable spare units on either Newton Heath or Neville Hill so the realistic choice was cancellation or a short form.

 

[james_the_xv]

And if there's zero spare units available, how do you do that?

Transfer one from London where there's sidings full of unused units! /sarcasm

 

[Peter A]

Never run two car 195s between four of the biggest cities in the country.

Leeds - Bradford - Manchester - Liverpool

Tbf that's an anomaly as usually the service runs to Chester but is diverted to Liverpool today due to engineering works. The Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool corridor is already serviced by TPE, perhaps some people are taking advantage of the presumably cheaper fares on the northern service.

 

[sportzbar]

Never run two car 195s between four of the biggest cities in the country.

Leeds - Bradford - Manchester - Liverpool

So with your plan then if due to unit failure etc there is only a two car unit available to run the service it should be cancelled correct? What a brilliant idea.

Let's ensure that all services on this particular route (apart from the fact that Leeds-Bradford-Manchester-Liverpool isn't an actual Northern service) are 4 car trains. If we can't run a 4 car then cancel it. That is what you are saying isn't it? Not really a solution though.....

 

[jonesy3001]

I was supposed to be on a TPE to york this afternoon, but most of their services have been cancelled today only alternative was northern or cross country, can't complain if a 195 turns up even if it does get you from a to b.

 

[stan claire]

Northern have done what they do best again, the 17:17 Manchester Airport to Blackpool North service has been blessed with a 4 car train even though I’ve gone as far as emailing them to complain about it, conductors have been complaining too. When this service is short formed it’s had to skip Lostock and Salford Crescent in the morning (07:22 from Blackpool uses the same diagram and is also equally busy) and then Deansgate and Salford Crescent in the evening because of overcrowding
One conductor has said to me that it should be made so it can’t be changed at all because of how bad it gets, however he said a 4 car is manageable. I should also mention that despite the busiest service being a short formation, the 16:48 from the airport (which essentially carries air) still has its usual formation

 

[MichaelTrains]

So with your plan then if due to unit failure etc there is only a two car unit available to run the service it should be cancelled correct? What a brilliant idea.

Let's ensure that all services on this particular route (apart from the fact that Leeds-Bradford-Manchester-Liverpool isn't an actual Northern service) are 4 car trains. If we can't run a 4 car then cancel it. That is what you are saying isn't it? Not really a solution though.....

Considering there was a three-car 158 in the old loop siding at Bradford Interchange on Sunday.

Running that in the place of the awful inadequate cheap as #### CAF 195 would have been a lot better.

I don't believe for one minute Northern didn't have any spare units in Sunday.

Especially when trains were showing as cancelled due to a lack of train crew.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Considering there was a three-car 158 in the old loop siding at Bradford Interchange on Sunday.

Running that in the place of the awful inadequate cheap as #### CAF 195 would have been a lot better.

I don't believe for one minute Northern didn't have any spare units in Sunday.

Especially when trains were showing as cancelled due to a lack of train crew.

BDI is almost exclusively used for storing only demic stock so I wouldn't assume it was available for use!

 

[skyhigh]

Considering there was a three-car 158 in the old loop siding at Bradford Interchange on Sunday.

158756 was stabled overnight in Bradford, it went to Leeds empty at 08.04 to begin booked Leeds-Huddersfield work which it did all day. At no other point was there a 158 3 car stabled at Bradford, spare or otherwise.

I don't believe for one minute Northern didn't have any spare units in Sunday.

Especially when trains were showing as cancelled due to a lack of train crew.

The train you were complaining about was short formed from Neville Hill that morning due to a late failure - the only spare unit at Leeds/Neville Hill/Holbeck was a 150. For obvious reasons a 150 can't be coupled to add capacity to a 195 and somehow I think a solo 150 would be worse than a solo 195/0. There may have been unused units due to cancellations, but they simply weren't in the right place to strengthen that service. And if you're cancelling trains due to a lack of drivers (which they were), who is going to be available to move a 195 about to strengthen another service? At which point, it comes down to a question of what is better - another cancellation by taking a driver to move an empty unit, or run the train short?

 

[sportzbar]

Considering there was a three-car 158 in the old loop siding at Bradford Interchange on Sunday.

Running that in the place of the awful inadequate cheap as #### CAF 195 would have been a lot better.

I don't believe for one minute Northern didn't have any spare units in Sunday.

Especially when trains were showing as cancelled due to a lack of train crew.

Comments like this just show a complete lack of understanding of how the day to day running works. If it was as simple as you think then it would have been done.

Whether you like it or not much more qualified people than you have made the decision that was taken that day. People who do it professionally for a living and have the bigger overall picture than you do. But you seem to think you have all the answers so next time a job comes up in control or planning, why not go for it? After all I'm sure Northern would welcome your ideas which in your mind they haven't already thought of.....

 

[HullRailMan]

Never run two car 195s between four of the biggest cities in the country.

Leeds - Bradford - Manchester - Liverpool

I bet nobody at Northern has ever thought of that - good job you’re here!

 

[Britannia94]

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