Nottingham 'Bus War'

[bb21]

I'm sure I know too. But, TB don't use double deckers. Nobody really knows why apart from a few surveys.

I remember reading an interview with Brian King over ten years ago in an industry magazine during which security and vandalism was mentioned. There was mention that being visible to the driver at all times deterred vandalism and reduced maintenance costs.

 

[Hyphen]

I can see why they don't use double deckers: They have conducted surveys and around 95% of passengers or something prefer to see the driver.

Certainly on the indigo (albeit this was in R5 days) their explanation for only using single deckers was the Long Eaton station railway bridge at Sawley being too low to support a regular decker service.

They also said they couldn't just run singles to Sawley and doubles everywhere else, because throughout the day individual buses were diagrammed on all runs and they couldn't make the timetable work if they had to have separate buses just for Sawley runs.

Can't post a source to this but I remember seeing this explanation on their (old, old) website years ago. It might even be something more doable now they've significantly messed with the timetable.

 

[Robertj21a]

Trouble with Trent/Wellglade is that they always think they know best - on just about everything. The danger is that they are genuinely quite good on most things, but actually rather poor on others.

They have had blinkers on with regards to double deckers for very many years, mostly a smoke screen for saying 'we just don't want to do it'. Despite quality deckers now being available, they'd still rather have their passengers rammed into a saloon for long distances - it's no wonder that competitors find them a good target for attack.

After many *years* they still can't put out coaches on all Red Arrow workings, despite their advertising and general hype suggesting that it's a coach route.

Substituting the proper buses on trunk routes with elderly Solos or Excels suggests that they can't be bothered to buy sufficient vehicles in the first place.

Robert.

 

[gordonthemoron]

In the 80s Trent used Double Deckers on the Bingham-Radcliffe-Nottingham-Derby route, the timekeeping was appalling and the route was eventually truncated to Bingham-Nottingham under TB

 

[Mugby]

Trouble with Trent/Wellglade is that they always think they know best - on just about everything. The danger is that they are genuinely quite good on most things, but actually rather poor on others.

They have had blinkers on with regards to double deckers for very many years, mostly a smoke screen for saying 'we just don't want to do it'. Despite quality deckers now being available, they'd still rather have their passengers rammed into a saloon for long distances - it's no wonder that competitors find them a good target for attack.

After many *years* they still can't put out coaches on all Red Arrow workings, despite their advertising and general hype suggesting that it's a coach route.

Substituting the proper buses on trunk routes with elderly Solos or Excels suggests that they can't be bothered to buy sufficient vehicles in the first place.

Robert.

I agree with that absolutely.

When the DDA regulations come into force, the obvious thing for the Red Arrow would be coach seated double deckers. Compliant and solving the capacity issues too. But will they do it?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

In the 80s Trent used Double Deckers on the Bingham-Radcliffe-Nottingham-Derby route, the timekeeping was appalling and the route was eventually truncated to Bingham-Nottingham under TB

Thats weird as thats one route (the 102) that I always remember having singles on - I have never been to Bingham on a double decker!

We used to have doubles on the 231-332-333. The peak extras on the 231 (this is before deregulation) were always coaches. The 357 was usually a single. The 331 was usually a coach though the 1500hrs short out of Nottingham was always a decker. In the 1990s Trents remaining runs on the 331 were ALWAYS a decker as the bus did a Fred Gent School run at S.Normanton. In fact the Rainbow 1 had been converted to singles and we used to seek out the 4 Trent 331s a day for a double deck ride! (If I remember it was 0720, 1005, 1400 & 1800 out of Nottingham).

Definitely need doubles on the Rainbow 1 now - either that or an increase in frequency before 11am & after 3pm to every 7/8 out of Nottingham.

 

[CallySleeper]

I agree with that absolutely.

When the DDA regulations come into force, the obvious thing for the Red Arrow would be coach seated double deckers. Compliant and solving the capacity issues too. But will they do it?

- The regulations came into force nearly seven years ago (4th December 2006).

- The 2010 registered RA coaches must be compliant to allow wheelchair access as they were produced after 1st January 2005. My understanding is that the older 04 coaches and Club Class coaches aren't able to carry wheelchairs so they will have to be either modified in order to carry them or (possibly more likely given their age) replaced with newer models.

 

[radamfi]

Double deckers fell out of fashion nationwide during the 90s as capacity wasn't needed due to falling patronage and using full size single deckers cut down on the vandalism and anti-social behaviour. Single deckers also had a better image with the travelling public.

I've heard some operators complain about limited garage space and so can't use full size single decks. So that means they can only use E200 size buses for single decks, meaning that they have been forced to go back to double deckers when a short single deck is too small.

Nottingham has bucked the national trend and increased patronage, so inevitably single decks have got busy.

 

[gordonthemoron]

and NCT have been moving from single decker to double decker on some routes, e.g. 36

 

[Robertj21a]

- The regulations came into force nearly seven years ago (4th December 2006).

- The 2010 registered RA coaches must be compliant to allow wheelchair access as they were produced after 1st January 2005. My understanding is that the older 04 coaches and Club Class coaches aren't able to carry wheelchairs so they will have to be either modified in order to carry them or (possibly more likely given their age) replaced with newer models.

Sorry, you seem to have got all your dates wrong.

The DDA regulations took effect in 2001 and there are various dates for older buses/coaches to comply - for example, saloons must be DDA compliant by 31/12/15 and double deckers must be DDA compliant by 31/12/16. Coaches are 3 years later.

Robert.

 

[CallySleeper]

Sorry, you seem to have got all your dates wrong.

The DDA regulations took effect in 2001 and there are various dates for older buses/coaches to comply - for example, saloons must be DDA compliant by 31/12/15 and double deckers must be DDA compliant by 31/12/16. Coaches are 3 years later.

Robert.

Not sure which regulations you're referring to but the most recent (DDA 2005) do specify those dates.

Back on topic, (just going by TB's policy) the 04 reg and club class coaches will be replaced by 2020, maybe even the 10 reg. Any new coaches they bring in will by law be DDA compliant as new. Will they be double decks? I doubt it. I doubt even more that they'll be buses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Double deckers fell out of fashion nationwide during the 90s as capacity wasn't needed due to falling patronage and using full size single deckers cut down on the vandalism and anti-social behaviour. Single deckers also had a better image with the travelling public.

I've heard some operators complain about limited garage space and so can't use full size single decks. So that means they can only use E200 size buses for single decks, meaning that they have been forced to go back to double deckers when a short single deck is too small.

Nottingham has bucked the national trend and increased patronage, so inevitably single decks have got busy.

One could argue that Trent started the trend (though in truth, these things are a bit cyclical). In fact, Midland Red got rid of virtually all their deckers during the 1970s with the exception of Leicester and got no new deckers from 1971-83!

The first new vehicles that the privatised Trent purchased were 24 Volvo Citybus deckers in 1988/9. Those were the last new deckers bought and since then, it's been various Optare products plus Darts, B10Ms etc.

Sometimes, it's not even companies but specific managers. The (in some quarters) respected Bob Hind who was of Arriva, didn't like DDs. Hence, Arriva North West didn't have new deckers for some while, yet as soon as he left for Arriva in Leicester, new and cascaded deckers poured into Merseyside!

 

[harry42]

Wonder if yourbus have considered taking the notts+derby 11 route which is being withdrawn?

I always thought this route would be good for them: Nottingham-Beeston-Bramcote-Stapleford-Ilkeston-(Follows 11 route)-Derby

 

[MCR247]

But surely if it is being withdrawn it is being withdrawn for a reason?!

 

[harry42]

Well as there is now the Y3, Notts+Derby probably decided there would be not much point in having 3 routes running in a corridor that isn't really that busy. Please; I don't know anything about how notts and derby run, just an idea.

So, if yourbus take advantage of this...

 

[Mitch in Notts]

It's only the evening & Sunday 11s that are being withdrawn. And the Sunday service used to be tendered in the daytime until TM Travel commercialised it.

 

[harry42]

It's only the evening & Sunday 11s that are being withdrawn. And the Sunday service used to be tendered in the daytime until TM Travel commercialised it.

Oh

 

[tbone]

Don't think it's been. Mentioned yet but the Y1 is going to a four bus an hour frequency from early next year.

Meanwhile, on the H1, brand new Optare Versas are due. The evening service is also changing, with buses running half way between Y1s to provide a better general frequency across the corridor. This is being promoted with tickets being halved in price after 7pm.

 

[harry42]

https://www.tan.gov.uk/tanen/vosa_s...icenceNo=PB0002186&cboRegNoFilter=PB0002186/8

This is still registered...Any ideas?!

 

[Mugby]

https://www.tan.gov.uk/tanen/vosa_s...icenceNo=PB0002186&cboRegNoFilter=PB0002186/8

This is still registered...Any ideas?!

That's Amberline. It just doesn't use the number 125 anymore.

What ideas were you seeking?

 

[harry42]

That's Amberline. It just doesn't use the number 125 anymore.

What ideas were you seeking?

Neh...just wondered, that's all.

Thanks

 

[mattb251]

Not Nottingham... but Kinchbus have Enviro 300 demo MX12 DYV on their skylink Derby Leicester service...


Kinchbus MX12 DYV on skylink Derby by mattb251, on Flickr

 

[starrymarkb]

That's an E200 (Dart in other words) - E300s are bigger and have curved windows at the rear

 

[mattb251]

That's an E200 (Dart in other words) - E300s are bigger and have curved windows at the rear

Sorry yes you're right. A slip of the keys there!

 

[harry42]

Yourbus taking over service 29 from tomorrow. Was this
by gills before? Because they have cancelled the 8 ow too

 

[Mitch in Notts]

According to Derbyshire County Councils website Gill's have ceased trading.

 

[harry42]

They have just found out. Very sad, although customers will be in shock when yourbus oldest vehicle is a 53 plate! Edit: website has says: as of 5 o clock today they are closed.

 

[howittpie]

I notice that from the 3rd December Centrebus are running the 9 and 19 as trough service from Peterborough to Nottingham.

 

[Mugby]

I notice that from the 3rd December Centrebus are running the 9 and 19 as trough service from Peterborough to Nottingham.

Just like the old days (of Barton that is!)

Pity Transpeak doesn't run to Nottingham any more, they could have linked it to that as well, Peterborough - Manchester!

 

[tbone]

A few upcoming changes:

-Sawley Xprss to be withdrawn
-Zoom to be extended to New & Old Sawley
-An improved Skylink Nottingh frequency
-Club Class is to be extended to Borrowash