Overground/Crossrail takeover of Greater Anglia inners

[Deerfold]

I'm fairly certain that you would be penalty fared if caught though as its no longer valid via that route.

Oyster doesn't have defined routes (except where there is more than one fare for a route). So long as you touch in, have enough Zones and PAYG to cover touching out at any point you may pass through on your journey and don't go outside the Oyster area or over the time limits for your journey you may take any route you like.

If you've seen it documented anywhere that this route is no longer valid, I'd be interested.

 

[Dave1987]

If an RPI got on your train, You have touched in so it would be valid and when you get off at liverpool street you have touched out,Infact you would have a valid ticket for the entire journey.

But you have touched in at a TFL station and then gone back one stop to an AGA station. And AGA don't get any of the revenue from Brentwood AFAIK. I'm fairly certain that is saw an AGA tweet stating that the cheaper TFL season ticket from Brentwood is not valid via Shenfield.

 

[450.emu]

Touch in on oyster at brentwood and touch out at liverpool street and the system has no way of telling whether you got the fast service via shenfield or the slow all stations service.

I can't see a problem with that... I used the Stansted Express to Tottenham Hale all the time I could see an issue if a picky GA Revenue inspector insist you should have been on a TfL train for your journey. Most of the GA staff were fine with me just going to Tottenham Hale.

 

[Dave1987]

Oyster doesn't have defined routes (except where there is more than one fare for a route). So long as you touch in, have enough Zones and PAYG to cover touching out at any point you may pass through on your journey and don't go outside the Oyster area or over the time limits for your journey you may take any route you like.

If you've seen it documented anywhere that this route is no longer valid, I'd be interested.

I'm sure I saw a tweet from the AGA account stating it wasn't valid anymore now TFL Rail have taken over. That people with AGA season tickets could still do it but the cheaper TFL season tickets were only valid on TFL Rail services.

 

[Deerfold]

But you have touched in at a TFL station and then gone back one stop to an AGA station. And AGA don't get any of the revenue from Brentwood AFAIK. I'm fairly certain that is saw an AGA tweet stating that the cheaper TFL season ticket from Brentwood is not valid via Shenfield.

The first sentence is irrelevant. If AGA have a problem with revenue attribution it's for them to take it up with TfL, not to ban passengers following the rules.

The last sentence you've started talking about season tickets, not Oyster. The rules are not the same (depending which season ticket you're on about).

 

[Dave1987]

The first sentence is irrelevant. If AGA have a problem with revenue attribution it's for them to take it up with TfL, not to ban passengers following the rules.

The last sentence you've started talking about season tickets, not Oyster. The rules are not the same (depending which season ticket you're on about).

I'm curious about this now so am going to find out.

 

[matt_world2004]

The first sentence is irrelevant. If AGA have a problem with revenue attribution it's for them to take it up with TfL, not to ban passengers following the rules.

The last sentence you've started talking about season tickets, not Oyster. The rules are not the same (depending which season ticket you're on about).

Although a zonal season ticket from brentwood on oyster with enough pay as you go credit for a journey from Brentwood to Shenfield would be perfectly valid for travelling to Liverpool Street via shenfield even if no paygo credit is taken at the end of the journey.

 

[RJ]

I'm fairly certain that you would be penalty fared if caught though as its no longer valid via that route.

The Oyster rules state that you have to touch in at the start of your journey, touch out at the other end and travel wholly within the Oyster area. There is no such thing as a permitted route so Brentwood passengers are at liberty to go via Shenfield if they wish.

I'm sure I saw a tweet from the AGA account stating it wasn't valid anymore now TFL Rail have taken over. That people with AGA season tickets could still do it but the cheaper TFL season tickets were only valid on TFL Rail services.

Whoever tweeted that doesn't know what they're talking about. It wouldn't be the first time TOC staff have demonstrated a misunderstanding of ticket validity on their own trains.

 

[Class377/5]

Don't assume the twitter team are TOC staff.

 

[Quakkerillo]

Is this double backing Brentwood-Shenfield, and then back via Brentwood to Liverpool Street allowed then with Oyster payg? It does seem a bit peculiar, as with almost any other ticket, similar situations wouldn't be okay (with frequent services), especially since they're in different pricing zones. (Brentwood-LST is 5.30, Shenfield-LST is 8.80)

It also sounds like you'd be allowed to go from Hadley Wood to Crews Hill all the way via Moorgate, instead of just changing at Alexandra Palace. Would that be okay too then?

 

[RJ]

Is this double backing Brentwood-Shenfield, and then back via Brentwood to Liverpool Street allowed then with Oyster payg? It does seem a bit peculiar, as with almost any other ticket, similar situations wouldn't be okay (with frequent services), especially since they're in different pricing zones. (Brentwood-LST is 5.30, Shenfield-LST is 8.80)

It also sounds like you'd be allowed to go from Hadley Wood to Crews Hill all the way via Moorgate, instead of just changing at Alexandra Palace. Would that be okay too then?

Yes, if you really wanted to. With Brentwood to Liverpool Street via Shenfield, there is a clear time incentive which you wouldn't get going from Hadley Wood to Crews Hill via Moorgate.

I'm not sure how long a touch in lasts for (up to 315 minutes I guess), but there will be a maximum journey time - if exceeded it would create two incomplete journeys upon touching out.

 

[TUC]

Even allowing for it being early days, the TfL Rail website looks sparser than it should https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tfl-rail/ with no mention of issues like how to book disabled persons assistance, which are standard requirements for any TOC.

 

[christopher]

Got held at Maryland on the way home because of "Signalling Issue", It's the first time in what must be 3 years I've heard a driver use the PA on a 315!

Liking the extra presence of staff at Stratford making sure people move down inside as well

 

[Sleepy]

Seen a message today from Crossrail stating they will accept AGA tickets between Stratford and Liverpool St. due to .......... ??? Surely it is rubbish as all Tube and Rail tickets are interavailable between these stations !

 

[greatkingrat]

Seen a message today from Crossrail stating they will accept AGA tickets between Stratford and Liverpool St. due to .......... ??? Surely it is rubbish as all Tube and Rail tickets are interavailable between these stations !

You and I may know that, but many passengers won't so it doesn't hurt to announce it. Plus I guess there may be a few people on AGA Only tickets?

 

[matt_world2004]

Seen a message today from Crossrail stating they will accept AGA tickets between Stratford and Liverpool St. due to .......... ??? Surely it is rubbish as all Tube and Rail tickets are interavailable between these stations !

!

GA staff passes may not be. So maybe it means this.

 

[greatkingrat]

All AGA / LOROL / TfL Rail staff can travel for free on any TOC between Liverpool Street and Enfield/Cheshunt/Chingford/Shenfield.

 

[RJ]

Seen a message today from Crossrail stating they will accept AGA tickets between Stratford and Liverpool St. due to .......... ??? Surely it is rubbish as all Tube and Rail tickets are interavailable between these stations !

Advance ticket might not be! Also never underestimate how misunderstood tickets are! Many commuters have no idea they're allow to make intermediate journeys on their seasons for example. You may get someone with a London to Colchester season thinking it's only valid on through services!

I get lots of customers who believe they have to buy a seperate ticket for each leg of their journey and have to split tickets if their journey involves a change of train. Believe me, the message going out isn't necessarily stating the obvious for everyone reading.

 

[Be3G]

Even allowing for it being early days, the TfL Rail website looks sparser than it should https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tfl-rail/ with no mention of issues like how to book disabled persons assistance, which are standard requirements for any TOC.

TfL's disabled assistance is provided on a turn-up-and-go basis across both Underground and Overground/Rail, hence the requirement for a staff presence at all times. There's therefore no need and no facility to prebook assistance.

 

[matt_world2004]

All AGA / LOROL / TfL Rail staff can travel for free on any TOC between Liverpool Street and Enfield/Cheshunt/Chingford/Shenfield.

For real? Nothing has been mentioned on our staff travel pages about travel on greater Anglia except between Liverpool street and Stratford.

 

[TUC]

Even allowing for it being early days, the TfL Rail website looks sparser than it should https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tfl-rail/ with no mention of issues like how to book disabled persons assistance, which are standard requirements for any TOC.

TfL's disabled assistance is provided on a turn-up-and-go basis across both Underground and Overground/Rail, hence the requirement for a staff presence at all times. There's therefore no need and no facility to prebook assistance.

But, bearing in mind that these services were-and National Rail list as still being- TOC services, why would passengers necessarily know that? TfL need to remember that they are not just speaking to a London audience.

Also, what if a passenger wants to make a longer, multi-train journey that starts at a TfL Rail sration? TfL Rail will be responsible for taking the booking and communicating the requirements.

 

[greatkingrat]

For real? Nothing has been mentioned on our staff travel pages about travel on greater Anglia except between Liverpool street and Stratford.

What pass do you have?

 

[matt_world2004]

What pass do you have?

Tfl staff pass, the one valid on the c2c and services from Euston to Watford as well as all Tfl services.

 

[plcd1]

For real? Nothing has been mentioned on our staff travel pages about travel on greater Anglia except between Liverpool street and Stratford.

That's been interavailable on TfL staff passes for decades. Ditto for Chiltern from M'bone to Amersham, C2C Fenchurch St - Upminster and TSGN Moorgate - Finsbury Park plus E&C / London Bridge - Kentish Town. These all go back to very long standing arrangements due to railway history. They haven't changed in eons.

All the TfL staff pass validity improvements have been as a result of TfL taking over TOC services plus whatever bits of the network have been extended.

I understood that TfL staff passes are NOT valid on AGA trains that run to Shenfield nor on the peak time semi fasts that run via Seven Sisters. Does anyone have a definitive statement?

I am not aware of what applies for LOROL or AGA employees in respect of their staff travel facilities.

 

[Clip]

For real? Nothing has been mentioned on our staff travel pages about travel on greater Anglia except between Liverpool street and Stratford.

Me lass got confirmation at weekend including nominee passes

 

[matt_world2004]

I understood that TfL staff passes are NOT valid on AGA trains that run to Shenfield nor on the peak time semi fasts that run via Seven Sisters. Does anyone have a definitive statement?

That was my understanding too.

 

[Sleepy]

My info from AGA states TFL Rail employee Only will have free travel from LST to Shenfield only, in the same way AGA staff (not spouse etc) can use ex- metro service for free. Similar arrangement applies to the routes Overground have taken over from AGA.

 

[greatkingrat]

Tfl staff pass, the one valid on the c2c and services from Euston to Watford as well as all Tfl services.

Normal TfL Oyster Cards are not valid on AGA (except Liv St - Stratford), it is only TfL Rail staff that can use AGA.

 

[Dave1987]

Looked at it again and yes people travelling from Brentwood can still go to Shenfield and then get AGA fast service to Stratford or Liv St (Im surprised AGA haven't kicked up a stick though as I doubt they get any revenue from Brentwood any longer). As far as the staff travel thing is concerned, only TFL Rail staff can travel on AGA fast services to Shenfield.

 

[Sleepy]

Normal TfL Oyster Cards are not valid on AGA (except Liv St - Stratford), it is only TfL Rail staff that can use AGA.

The Tfl Rail staff cannot use services North of Shenfield (except those who transferred from AGA e.g. living in Chelmsford who will be given special residential pass).