Overton to Manchester (retrurn): contradictory information

[3141]

I’m hoping that someone can clarify the following question. On Saturday 19th May I have to make a return trip from Overton (Hampshire) to Manchester. Yesterday evening I booked a ticket through the South Western Railway website. For the outward journey all the trains it showed were Cross Country services via Reading and Birmingham, at an off-peak return fare (with a railcard) of £63.65. Most of the return journeys it showed were also by Cross Country, but there were a few by Virgin West Coast. One of these is the 17.15, which would be very useful for me as it will get me home an hour earlier than if I get the 17.27 Cross Country departure (which for some reason the website didn’t show).

The website asked me to choose my trains in each direction, so for the return trip I selected the 17.15.

I’ve now collected the tickets from the TVM at Overton, and for both directions they state “Not valid via London Terminals”.

I’ve checked the SWR website again today, and it is again offering the 17.15 Virgin West Coast service. On the other hand, the train line shows the off-peak return that I’ve booked as being available only on Cross Country services and not on VWC.

If I get on a Virgin train to London Euston with a ticket which says “Not valid via London Terminals” it could be an expensive mistake, even though the website from which I bought it said that it is valid on the VWC service, and let me reserve a seat on it. I feel that I’ll need something very convincing to show to the guard on the VWC service to prove that my ticket is valid, otherwise I’ll have to go by Cross Country and take longer. Can anyone throw any further light on this?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I’m hoping that someone can clarify the following question. On Saturday 19th May I have to make a return trip from Overton (Hampshire) to Manchester. Yesterday evening I booked a ticket through the South Western Railway website. For the outward journey all the trains it showed were Cross Country services via Reading and Birmingham, at an off-peak return fare (with a railcard) of £63.65. Most of the return journeys it showed were also by Cross Country, but there were a few by Virgin West Coast. One of these is the 17.15, which would be very useful for me as it will get me home an hour earlier than if I get the 17.27 Cross Country departure (which for some reason the website didn’t show).

The website asked me to choose my trains in each direction, so for the return trip I selected the 17.15.

I’ve now collected the tickets from the TVM at Overton, and for both directions they state “Not valid via London Terminals”.

I’ve checked the SWR website again today, and it is again offering the 17.15 Virgin West Coast service. On the other hand, the train line shows the off-peak return that I’ve booked as being available only on Cross Country services and not on VWC.

If I get on a Virgin train to London Euston with a ticket which says “Not valid via London Terminals” it could be an expensive mistake, even though the website from which I bought it said that it is valid on the VWC service, and let me reserve a seat on it. I feel that I’ll need something very convincing to show to the guard on the VWC service to prove that my ticket is valid, otherwise I’ll have to go by Cross Country and take longer. Can anyone throw any further light on this?

Do you have a reservation for the Virgin Trains London-Manchester service in conjunction with a 'not via London' ticket? If so, the fact that a mistake has evidently been made is immaterial - you made the booking in good faith and it must be honoured.

In the absolute worst case scenario you might be forced to pay for an excess to the Off-Peak 'Via London' ticket - for a one-leg excess you pay half the difference between the fares, so that would be an extra £8.25 at the normal rate, or £5.45 if you have a Railcard. Not exactly bank breaking (though it would be entirely incorrect if you were travelling in accordance with a reservation).

 

[Randomer]

To echo the above comments; I understand that if you have the confirmation for the tickets with an accompanying printed itinerary (presuming from an accredited booking site, i.e. Licensed Retailer in NRCOT) then the journey is valid especially with appropriate reservations on the service in question. Which I'm sure you are already aware of.

To be honest I would expect more trouble at the Euston gateline than on the service if you have a valid reservation.

However, I also can't find mention of this in the current NRCOT. So perhaps the question is rather where is the above understanding referenced in writing.

 

[robbeech]

Trying to book the 1715 as the return train is forcing the purchase of the via London ticket.
Infact certain booking engines if you travel up XC and back via London force you to buy 2 off peak single tickets which is more expensive.

If you held the more expensive ticket it is permitted via the cheaper route although some guards will deny this.

My advice is if you have a reservation on the way back then there should be no problem, if not the excess is quite small as you’d only have to pay half the difference as you’re only doing it one way.

 

[3141]

Thanks to those of you who've replied. Yes, I do have a seat reservation for the VWC journey, and here's the relevant section of the itinerary as set out in the booking confirmation from SWR:-
Return journey: 19 May 2018
departs Manchester Piccadilly at 17:15 travel by Train service provider Virgin Trains to station London Euston arrives 19:22 ( seats reserved: Coach: E Seats: 32 )
departs London Euston at 19:37 travel by London Underground to station London Waterloo arrives at 19:57
departs London Waterloo at 20:20 travel by Train service provider South Western Railway to station Overton arrives 21:15.

It looks as if I should make sure I have the confirmation with me on the journey, plus a copy of the advice you've given me on this thread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As VT is involved I would strongly recommend arriving at Picc in enough time to go to the ticket office and obtain the excess if the barrier staff refuse you access. You can then argue about it afterwards and try to reclaim it. Make sure they only charge you half the distance, near enough every time I have purchased a route excess they have tried to charge me the full difference and had to be corrected (in one case, which nobody will be surprised to know involves GTR (specifically East Grinstead), they refused to correct it and I had to take it up in retrospect else I was going to miss the train).

 

[Merseysider]

It should work the ticket barriers at Picc, negating the need to interact with the Virgin staff

 

[Bletchleyite]

It should work the ticket barriers at Picc, negating the need to interact with the Virgin staff

It should, but if it doesn't (e.g. because of the magstripe failing) be absolutely certain you will be turned back. You potentially could then get away with going round and over the bridge, but if they see you you'll be missing the train.

Best ensure you arrive and go through the barriers as soon as the train is there so if turned back you have time to go to the ticket office.

Once you are through the worst they can do on board is charge the excess. (Don't argue too much in case that ends you up with a frivolous prosecution threat and all the faff that entails; you can always take it up afterwards).

 

[Merseysider]

It should, but if it doesn't (e.g. because of the magstripe failing) be absolutely certain you will be turned back.

I don’t see why you would?

All Virgins call at Stoke or Crewe and even a ‘not via London’ ticket is valid to go there and change for Birmingham.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don’t see why you would?

All Virgins call at Stoke or Crewe and even a ‘not via London’ ticket is valid to go there and change for Birmingham.

Good point, I didn't think of that. The OP could of course argue that if questioned.

Just don't underestimate the ability of VTWC barrier staff to cause issues with entirely valid tickets, let alone issuing errors like this.

 

[3141]

It's occurred to me that I ought to think about what may happen at Waterloo as well as at Manchester Piccadilly or Euston. If I've paid an excess at Manchester, will that cover me for the Waterloo - Overton part of the trip?

 

[yorkie]

The ticket must be honoured.

However if it isn't, you can report a breach of contract and reclaim the excess. The excess covers the whole journey.

But give them a chance to honour the contract. A breach would be cause for concern.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

It's occurred to me that I ought to think about what may happen at Waterloo as well as at Manchester Piccadilly or Euston. If I've paid an excess at Manchester, will that cover me for the Waterloo - Overton part of the trip?

If you excess your ticket to 'via London' then you are absolutely entitled to use it via Waterloo for this journey. The way it normally works is that you keep your original ticket and get a new one which shows that you have paid the excess to the 'via London' route. So you would not be able to use the automatic barriers with either ticket, as the main 'not via London' ticket obviously isn't valid that way, and as the excess isn't valid on its own. So you would have to show it to the barrier staff.

If you have a reservation and/or itinerary from Waterloo and you adhere to it then you should be fine. If you are made to pay an excess whilst following your itinerary, you should claim this back from the train company whose staff member charged it.

 

[robbeech]

So you would not be able to use the automatic barriers with either ticket, as the main 'not via London' ticket obviously isn't valid that way, and as the excess isn't valid on its own. So you would have to show it to the barrier staff.

Not always strictly true.
If you put the excess through the barrier it may well work.
I have changed ‘via doncaster’ tickets to ‘via leeds’ ones and put the excess through at Leeds barriers and it has opened. Leeds barriers are very picky on ENTRY.

 

[Merseysider]

Just don't underestimate the ability of VTWC barrier staff to cause issues with entirely valid tickets, let alone issuing errors like this.

Yes, quite

 

[3141]

Unfortunately, the event for which I was travelling to Manchester has been called off at short notice and I've applied for a refund for the train tickets. I'm really grateful to everyone who's offered advice about this, and I was looking forward to what might happen. There's a possibility that I may make the journey next month, in which case I'll book through the SWR website again and see if it makes the same mistake.