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Peterborough to London off peak

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pacenotes

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I've just moved to the area and now have to buy train tickets instead of using a Oyster card!

So according to this webpage https://www.lner.co.uk/tickets-savings/your-ticket/train-ticket-options/off-peak-tickets/

I could take any train that arrives after 10:08 into Kings cross for a Off peak ticket.

But on the apps I can only get the off peak ticket for trains after 10:10 from Peterborough.

Am I reading that website incorrect? or can I just buy a off peak ticket and take an earlier train?
 
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Watershed

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If I wanted to find out what time an Off-Peak ticket was valid, frankly the last place I would search would be the website of any train operator. Information on these sites is often out of date, misleading or simply doesn't fully explain the situation - which in the case of Peterborough to London is extremely complex!

A much better place to start your research, even though it takes a bit of getting used to, is BR Fares. This shows that, apart from Advances, you have both Any Permitted and Great Northern/Thameslink only walk-up fares for Peterborough to London.

In terms of the Any Permitted fares, you have the following choice:
  • Anytime "Short Distance" Return (£123.50)
  • Off-Peak Return (£85.90) - this has restriction code 1D so is valid to arrive into London from 10:08 onwards; there are also evening restrictions
  • Super Off-Peak Return (£54.00) - this has restriction code 1L so is valid to arrive into London from 11:17 onwards; there are also evening restrictions (more onerous than than Off-Peak Return)
  • Off-Peak Day Return (£39.90) - this has restriction code E8 so is valid to arrive into London from 10:59 onwards; there are also evening restrictions (these are similar to the Super Off-Peak but start and end slightly later)
In terms of the Great Northern/Thameslink only fares, you have the following choice:
  • Anytime Return (£67.20) - evidently this journey isn't a "short distance" one when GTR set their fares! :rolleyes:
  • Off-Peak Return (£48.00) - this has restriction code 5J so is valid from 09:30, as well as additionally on the 09:17 from Peterborough; it's not valid departing Kings Cross or St Pancras between 17:30-18:30
  • Off-Peak Day Return (£32.90) - this has restriction code B4 so is valid to depart from 08:45 onwards, with no evening restrictions
  • Super Off-Peak Day Return (£32.00) - this is the version sold on weekdays; it has restriction code TN, so is valid to arrive into London from 10:55 onwards - there are also evening restrictions
  • Super Off-Peak Day Return (£22.00) - this is the version sold on weekends and Bank Holidays; it has restriction code FB, meaning it is valid at any time
There are also Travelcard versions of some of these fares.

So as you can see, there are seven different types of Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak ticket just in terms of returns, each with their own restriction codes which vary in their effect from "valid at any time" to "heavily restricted". Clearly it would almost never make sense to buy the £32 Great Northern/Thameslink only Super Off-Peak Day Return when the equivalent Off-Peak Day Return costs just 90p more and has much less onerous time restrictions, yet TOCs such as GTR feel that it's a good idea to clutter up the choice of fares with absolute spacewasters like that.

Having this number of fares means that it's impossible to give one answer to the question "when is an Off-Peak ticket valid", even when you're just talking about Peterborough to London.
 

Hadders

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@Watershed has done an excellent job of explaining the complexity of fares between Peterborough and London. Worth bearing in mind that LNER operate the fastest trains but GTR do operate some fast extras in the peaks which can be useful in the evening.

A layman would use this as a classic case of where fares could be simplified and there are some that could be removed without any significant detriment. That sais, with the dead hand of the Treasury/DfT in charge it would be the good value fares that would be removed leaving the vast majority paying more.
 

pacenotes

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What a great answer! Thanks watershed! You have explained alot more than was expected! I shall look in the BR fares for my return times.

Such a minefield...
 

Haywain

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It may also be worth remembering that the fares routed Any Permitted currently have a "seasonal variation" to the restrictions so that they do not apply on Fridays for travel to London and Stevenage. This 'variation' applies until further notice.
 

30907

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What a great answer! Thanks watershed! You have explained alot more than was expected! I shall look in the BR fares for my return times.

Such a minefield...
To be fair, the page you linked has the information for the 3 offpeak fare types, but it contains all the info for all LNER routes. Watershed's summary of the time restriction is simpler!

I can get the Offpeak Return (not just Offpeak Day) to show on my app (Northern), and it also shows on the LNER website, but with so many fares to show, ordered by price, you either have to scroll or to "show all fares" for a specific train.
 

paul1609

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Whereabouts in London is your final destination? If its on a Thameslink served station south of the river its often not worth paying the LNER premium to save under 10 mins on the whole journey.
 
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