PRIV Oyster

[WarJan]

To be fair on RSTL, they’ve negotiated and set something up for us. Over the years circumstances beyond their control (obsolescent TIS, troublesome TVM updates) have meant an ever decreasing number of stations can load the discount.

With the current setup all the problems seem to on the side of the station operator. TfL don’t want the discount loaded on the Underground where it isn’t valid and they have good reasons for that. They even have a taskforce who continually removes discounts that are incorrectly loaded.

Hopefully RSTL don’t just chuck the agreement due to all the problems and the issues at Elizabeth Line stations can be resolved. I’ll make some enquiries within TfL to see if they can help us by revealing where the NR Only discounts are successfully being loaded.

Rail Staff Travel seriously need to get a grip on this. It amounts to a de facto withdrawal of priv travel on these services by TfL. If their staff who qualify for priv travel on NR were limited to buying their priv tickets from a couple of suburban stations and only then if the right member of staff happened to be on shift that day, they'd rightly be kicking off.

It's particularly grating when there should be no technical reason that any station with a LU machine would be unable to set it, other than someone somewhere issuing staff an instruction that they mustn't do so.

This all seems ridiculous. Having started the thread with my success. I'm not looking forward to my trip to London tomorrow to attempt to renew my Oyster. Will try Paddington Elizabeth line again. So am I best asking to speak to the supervisor?

If that doesn't work then RSTL need to send out an urgent email regarding what they expect us to actually do! Common sense would be to allow temporary free travel until this is resolved but I won't hold my breath.

Just feels such a ridiculous situation. I will making a lot of travel over the next few months. Not sure what I can do. Pay full price and try and claim back? Or argue on the gate lines each time?

I have come to the conclusion this is wholly unacceptable, from tfl.

Immediately withdraw any agreement in place that entitles LOROL, LUL and MTR staff any perks or privileges whatsoever on national rail facilities. Including immediate withdrawal of Priv Cards.

Mentioned by PuppCuff. This is effectively the withdrawal of Priv Rate travel on oyster on National Rail services, by tfl using their oyster. This if you ask me if a serious dispute in the making.

Not acceptable and I am tempted to email the publicly available [email protected] to ask for an explanation.

I have contacted RST and am awaiting comment . RST unfortunately have no control and no blame lies with them, I believe this to be on Tfl.

I advise no other fellow NR employee to take it out on staff, question them or moan to supervisors, this is clearly a management issue within TfL and it's various brands.

Will have to now use my Railcard oyster, instead of paying 85p from Z5-Z1 will now cost £2.25.

To be fair on RSTL, they’ve negotiated and set something up for us. Over the years circumstances beyond their control (obsolescent TIS, troublesome TVM updates) have meant an ever decreasing number of stations can load the discount.

With the current setup all the problems seem to on the side of the station operator. TfL don’t want the discount loaded on the Underground where it isn’t valid and they have good reasons for that. They even have a taskforce who continually removes discounts that are incorrectly loaded.

Hopefully RSTL don’t just chuck the agreement due to all the problems and the issues at Elizabeth Line stations can be resolved. I’ll make some enquiries within TfL to see if they can help us by revealing where the NR Only discounts are successfully being loaded.

RJ , I'd try the TFL staff email in above post to see if that helps.

Unfortunately TOC staff were incorrectly getting the PRIV all discounted and so tfl obviously said no more , so banned their staff from setting any discount whatsoever

 

[Tim O' Soara]

This all seems ridiculous. Having started the thread with my success. I'm not looking forward to my trip to London tomorrow to attempt to renew my Oyster. Will try Paddington Elizabeth line again. So am I best asking to speak to the supervisor?

If that doesn't work then RSTL need to send out an urgent email regarding what they expect us to actually do! Common sense would be to allow temporary free travel until this is resolved but I won't hold my breath.

Just feels such a ridiculous situation. I will making a lot of travel over the next few months. Not sure what I can do. Pay full price and try and claim back? Or argue on the gate lines each time?

I tried to get National Rail priv discount re-set on my Oyster last Tuesday at Pad elizabeth line. A) I had the latest RST page on my phone saying Elizabeth Line stations could do it (these were excluded in the older brief) B) Pad had enabled it gladly for my and my wife's old card only a few months ago.

This time one colleague looked at the other and said " Oh yeah, we'll need the (manager), is he around?" Then the second colleague hesitated and said, "actually, no we can't do it. We're not allowed to. We've literally done thousands but they've stopped it. Try Farringdon if you're going there".
I paid full fare to Farringdon, where only LFT staff were on tvm's and they flatly explained it would have to be LOREL staff. I was going to KX, so I walked there via Euston, as that has LOREL services, but there are none of their staff or facilities, so I gave up for the time being.

 

[Falcon1200]

The only conclusion I can draw from TfL's conduct is that they are deliberately making it so awkward for National Rail staff to obtain discounted travel that they will give up and just pay full fare.

 

[Tim O' Soara]

On my way back from Stansted on Friday I went through Liv St, but there's only LU staff that I can see. Then tried different people at Pad again, and was told the same. They themselves couldn't do it, but I would have to be 'someone higher up'. They couldn't say who that was or when they would be available..."Mornings perhaps", was the answer. Not particularly helpful if you live 200 miles away.

 

[RJ]

I got mine loaded - first try, no problem whatsoever.

The guidance says it should be loaded at an Elizabeth Line station which it was - at the Davies St ticket hall.

 

[Haywain]

I have succeeded in getting the discount applied to an Oyster card in recent days. This was at the third EL station of asking, so wasn't easy. In deference to the member of staff who kindly assisted me, I will not reveal which station it was - I appreciate this may be frustrating to others though. At the first attempt I simply got a blanket refusal, and at the second just got "We're not allowed to do it", and was told to go to an underground station or a London Terminal! At the same location the same erson did try to radio for a manager but simply got another response of "Go to an underground station". At the third station I was initially refused, but the staff member sympathised with my frustration and added the discount, but asked me not to tell anyone where it had been done, due to the reaction they had encountered from other staff for doing it previously. From this member of staff I did get the information that it is on instruction from their union that they are 'not allowed' to add discounts to Oyster cards (including national railcard discounts) because 'it hasn't been agreed'. The union in question is RMT. This would also explain why managers can apply the discount if you are lucky enough to find a station where the staff will contact them and they are a) available, b) sufficiently knowledgeable and c) can be bothered.

 

[PupCuff]

I won't give the exact time and date in case it drops the specific member of staff in it with their union or colleagues, but over the last week they sorted it at Paddington Elizabeth Line.

Unfortunately it does appear to be luck of the draw.

 

[Tim O' Soara]

I emailed TFL about this on 16/11. So far ive just had their standard 'aim to respond within 10 days' message.

 

[Ennis]

This was posted on the RDG staff travel page yesterday.

News

This page contains our important messages, most recent first.

www.raildeliverygroup.com

NR Priv Discount on Oyster for non-safeguarded staff - updated 16 December 2022​

This news item applies only to non-safeguarded staff who entered rail service after 31 March 1996.

RST are aware of the issues employees are experiencing when trying to get the NR Only Priv discount set on their Oyster cards. We continue to liaise with Transport for London and MTR Elizabeth line hope to get this resolved shortly.

In the meantime, RST cannot help with any queries about this, so we would ask anyone who experiences difficulties to log this directly with TfL at tfl.gov.uk/help-and-contact/contact-us-about-tube-and-rail-staff

We will update this page when we have further news.

16 December 2022

 

[AndrewE]

This was posted on the RDG staff travel page yesterday.

News

This page contains our important messages, most recent first.

www.raildeliverygroup.com

NR Priv Discount on Oyster for non-safeguarded staff - updated 16 December 2022​

This news item applies only to non-safeguarded staff who entered rail service after 31 March 1996.

RST are aware of the issues employees are experiencing when trying to get the NR Only Priv discount set on their Oyster cards. We continue to liaise with Transport for London and MTR Elizabeth line hope to get this resolved shortly.

In the meantime, RST cannot help with any queries about this, so we would ask anyone who experiences difficulties to log this directly with TfL at tfl.gov.uk/help-and-contact/contact-us-about-tube-and-rail-staff

We will update this page when we have further news.

16 December 2022

How did you pick that up? I would like to subscribe to updates but I can't see that option on the RDG page or on RSTL

 

[RJ]

I think at the moment this is just one of those things in life. The reality is on an individual level, it’s entirely possible to get the discount loaded if you shop around a little. You might get lucky at the first station or you might have to try a few times but you will get it.

With all the complications happening at the moment I think it’s probably not a good idea to trouble the RDG or TfL, just keep trying stations and once successful forget about it until next October. I’d rather do it this way and have the discount available, than the concession be withdrawn because of the difficulties and complaints generated.

In the meantime, hopefully the misfortune with ticket office closures, removal of equipment from TOC ticket offices, TVM software updates and industrial relations issues putting a spanner in the works will be worked out in the fullness of time. The powers that be are well aware and working on it.

 

[92002]

I think at the moment this is just one of those things in life. The reality is on an individual level, it’s entirely possible to get the discount loaded if you shop around a little. You might get lucky at the first station or you might have to try a few times but you will get it.

With all the complications happening at the moment I think it’s probably not a good idea to trouble the RDG or TfL, just keep trying stations and once successful forget about it until next October. I’d rather do it this way and have the discount available, than the concession be withdrawn because of the difficulties and complaints generated.

In the meantime, hopefully the misfortune with ticket office closures, removal of equipment from TOC ticket offices, TVM software updates and industrial relations issues putting a spanner in the works will be worked out in the fullness of time. The powers that be are well aware and working on it.

Surely the simplest way to load the correct discount on a card would be for RSTL to load it on a card Then send it out with the Annual Priv cards to those who request an oyster card. It can then be topped at a TVM machine in person. RSTL hold all the entitlements on their system. So are best placed to do the issue of oyster cards Current cards can then be cashed in.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Surely the simplest way to load the correct discount on a card would be for RSTL to load it on a card Then send it out with the Annual Priv cards to those who request an oyster card. It can then be topped at a TVM machine in person. RSTL hold all the entitlements on their system. So are best placed to do the issue of oyster cards Current cards can then be cashed in.

That would require RST to have access to a London Underground Ticket Office Machine (and associated Ticket Seller ID to be able to login), given Cubic FasTIS+ is no longer an accredited system for National Rail use and Cubic can't/won't licence the necessary tech to other TIS suppliers.

I strongly suspect the cost involved in acquiring and maintaining same would significantly outweigh the use it would get.

 

[92002]

That would require RST to have access to a London Underground Ticket Office Machine (and associated Ticket Seller ID to be able to login), given Cubic FasTIS+ is no longer an accredited system for National Rail use and Cubic can't/won't licence the necessary tech to other TIS suppliers.

I strongly suspect the cost involved in acquiring and maintaining same would significantly outweigh the use it would get.

Sure if there is a will there will be a way. It's not only Network Rail staff who get Priv Oysters, They get different discounts All TOC staff and the many different Engineering Companies staff and retired staff from these and the old BR get oyster discounts too at different discounts so sizeable numbers involved.

 

[Haywain]

Sure if there is a will there will be a way. It's not only Network Rail staff who get Priv Oysters, They get different discounts All TOC staff and the many different Engineering Companies staff and retired staff from these and the old BR get oyster discounts too at different discounts so sizeable numbers involved.

But this is not about Network Rail staff or safeguarded staff with TOCs and engineering companies who are unaffectedby this problem. It is purely about 'New Entrants' and their specific discount.

 

[92002]

But this is not about Network Rail staff or safeguarded staff with TOCs and engineering companies who are unaffectedby this problem. It is purely about 'New Entrants' and their specific discount.

It's about all of the above. All staff whether new, current, safeguarded and Retired have no way of getting their oyster cards discount applied and Annual updates done since LUL closed their ticket offices.

It needs to have a joined up approach not the current shambles.Not here 'guv, try there. We're not allowed to do it now.

 

[Mojo]

It's about all of the above. All staff whether new, current, safeguarded and Retired have no way of getting their oyster cards discount applied and Annual updates done since LUL closed their ticket offices.

It needs to have a joined up approach not the current shambles.Not here 'guv, try there. We're not allowed to do it now.

Safeguarded staff (as well children of active TfL/LUL staff) have been able to get Priv discounts enabled on their Oyster cards by LUL staff for several years before the tickets were even closed. It is only the NR discount for active staff which LUL staff are not allowed to add.

 

[RJ]

It's about all of the above. All staff whether new, current, safeguarded and Retired have no way of getting their oyster cards discount applied and Annual updates done since LUL closed their ticket offices.

It needs to have a joined up approach not the current shambles.Not here 'guv, try there. We're not allowed to do it now.

All other Priv discounts can be loaded at LU stations by approaching a member of staff who will assist at the ticket machine.

The NR Only discount is a special case that LU don’t want loading at their stations because the discount isn’t valid on the Underground.

 

[Joe Paxton]

[...]
From this member of staff I did get the information that it is on instruction from their union that they are 'not allowed' to add discounts to Oyster cards (including national railcard discounts) because 'it hasn't been agreed'. The union in question is RMT. This would also explain why managers can apply the discount if you are lucky enough to find a station where the staff will contact them and they are a) available, b) sufficiently knowledgeable and c) can be bothered.

Oh my gosh, that is daft. So much for any notions about 'the railway family'.

 

[Ennis]

How did you pick that up? I would like to subscribe to updates but I can't see that option on the RDG page or on RSTL

I just noticed it whilst looking at the staff travel section on the RDG site, I am not registered for any updates.

 

[Dstock7080]

A bulletin to LU staff states:

. . . that this particular discount could not be set at LU operated stations but could be set at London Overground and MTR operated Elizabeth line stations. However, a number of customers wanting the discount set on their Oyster card had reported difficulty in getting th is set at those stations due to an ongoing trade union dispute, which had resulted in staff either refusing or being instructed not to set discounts on their TVMs. The good news is that following a recent meeting with the Rail Delivery Group and MTR, there now appears to be “some light at the end of the tunnel” in terms of customers being able to get the NR only discount set. A change will shortly be made to the TVM screens at Overground and MTR Elizabeth line stations and MTR are in the process of briefing their staff at key stations on how to set discounts. MTR are hopeful of having a number of stations able to set discounts by mid- December and hopefully a similar arrangement will follow for London Overground stations. In the meantime, the best advice to any customers querying how to get their discount set, is to refer them to the NR Staff Travel website

 

[island]

Sure if there is a will there will be a way.

Indeed. This whole mess stinks of everyone involved wanting to make it "someone else's problem".

 

[Watershed]

Indeed. This whole mess stinks of everyone involved wanting to make it "someone else's problem".

I guess it doesn't help that it's a discretionary benefit in the first place. TfL are also (arguably) giving more away than they are getting from it, hence they don't have a huge incentive to address it.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Is the discussion only about non-safeguarded staff facing difficulties? When I was working in London I found that many L.U.L. staff were unhelpful, in a variety of ways, towards B.R. staff using staff travel facilities. My fellow retirees, safeguarded, have also found it difficult to have their Oyster card validated.

I guess it doesn't help that it's a discretionary benefit in the first place. TfL are also (arguably) giving more away than they are getting from it, hence they don't have a huge incentive to address it.

Staff travel for safeguarded staff is not discretionary. That's why it's not officially called 'Priv'.

And I would suggest that TfL staff gain more saving from their reduced fares on National Rail than the reverse.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I guess it doesn't help that it's a discretionary benefit in the first place. TfL are also (arguably) giving more away than they are getting from it, hence they don't have a huge incentive to address it.

They're not giving away more than they're getting. London Overground and Elizabeth Line staff, being part of National Rail, get the discount throughout Great Britain.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

And I would suggest that TfL staff gain more saving from their reduced fares on National Rail than the reverse.

And what reduced fares would those be?

 

[Merle Haggard]

And what reduced fares would those be?

Although it was some time ago now, when I commuted from Northampton to London there was a number of L.T. staff making the same journey who had season tickets priced at quarter fare. Ironically, they paid less than B.R. staff because the Watford - London element was free for them - even though they used B.R.,not L.T. between those points. And they also only paid quarter fare on long distance journeys on B.R.. Rather more than I saved by having a reduced rate L.T. season ticket, with the occasional other L.T. rail journey.

 

[miklcct]

Ironically, they paid less than B.R. staff because the Watford - London element was free for them - even though they used B.R.,not L.T. between those points.

Is it because of interavailability? Even now the whole length of Euston - Watford Junction is listed as an interavailable route on London Underground tickets, despite there are no longer tube trains running north of Harrow & Wealdstone.

 

[Haywain]

Is the discussion only about non-safeguarded staff facing difficulties?

Yes, as has been made clear several times.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Yes, as has been made clear several times.

Sorry, misled by thread title and came to it late without reading all the posts.