Restriction code 9I

[KatieLouLou]

Notwithstanding whether or not it is technically valid due to a valid itinerary being produced, but is code 9I being applied correctly by journey planners?

On a journey from Sandy travelling northbound, on a Tuesday, destination Manchester via Leeds (or York depending which journey planner you choose!), so not via London, the Off Peak Return (via London) fare is offered as opposed to the Anytime (not via London) fare. The former is marginally cheaper than the latter.

Restriction 9I applies to the Off Peak Return ticket, which restricts travel on trains timed to depart Kings Cross before 09.06 and St Pancras before 10.46. The 07.05 from Sandy falls into the former, as it originates from Kings Cross.

CG applies via Nottingham which bars the Off Peak Return ticket before 0900 on that route, and 9I appears to be applied correctly for journeys via Euston.

(And before anyone says it will now be corrected if it is wrong, I have an interest in making sure it is being correctly applied).

 

[CyrusWuff]

Essentially the fares system can't really cope with daisy chaining restrictions like 9I (and it's Southbound counterpart 2C) does, so operators have to try and bodge it to get journey planners to work as expected.

If you scroll down to the "Unpublished Restrictions" here you'll see how 9I works behind the scenes: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=EUS&dest=BHM&expert=on&flow=3&multi=0&fare=10&tkt=SVR

I stand for correction, but given the journey doesn't involve London or Stevenage, it's effectively unrestricted.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Essentially the fares system can't really cope with daisy chaining restrictions like 9I (and it's Southbound counterpart 2C) does, so operators have to try and bodge it to get journey planners to work as expected.

Surely this is more because the restrictions data can't cope with restrictions involving trains timed to depart a station before the one you board at?

The morning restrictions apply for trains departing King's Cross and Stevenage, which OP's trains fall into, but the electronic restrictions aren't applied to a train's origin - only the journey's origin and destination, change points and each train's final destination.

Fixing this using the current way restrictions are applied would involve something like code C0's electronic restrictions, where to enforce a written restriction barring trains timed to pass London Bridge 04:30-09:44, electronic restrictions are placed on trains timed to arrive at the final destination of each northbound Thameslink train i.e. Luton, Royston, Bedford, Peterborough and Cambridge, ensuring that the electronic restriction correctly applies the written restriction.

I believe (but open to correction) the written restrictions apply, but if OP uses these electronic restrictions to obtain an itinerary, this itinerary would certainly be valid.

 

[Haywain]

if OP uses these electronic restrictions to obtain an itinerary, this itinerary would certainly be valid.

The irony here being that the OP would actually prefer NOT to be able to obtain such an itinerary (unless I have misunderstood the line quoted below). I find this particularly strange, as there is no compulsion to use to use a ticket at such a time.

(And before anyone says it will now be corrected if it is wrong, I have an interest in making sure it is being correctly applied).

 

[HurdyGurdy]

Surely this is more because the restrictions data can't cope with restrictions involving trains timed to depart a station before the one you board at?

I agree with this. It is the limitation in the structure of the electronic restrictions data, rather than daisy chaining, which leads to the anomaly which allows itineraries to be generated using trains which are barred by the written restriction of 9I. BTW, the Off Peak ticket with that restriction is routed Any Permitted with a Maltese cross, rather than via London. If it was routed via London, journey planners would not find any itineraries via Peterborough and Leeds/York.

Fixing this using the current way restrictions are applied would involve something like code C0's electronic restrictions

It's probably simpler to apply something like 9D's. A restriction on departure time from Peterborough.