SailRail changes during strike - Windermere to Holyhead, 8/5/2004

[endecotp]

Dear Experts,

A friend has booked (via TrainLine) a SailRail to Dublin, starting in Windermere. The planned itinerary was Windermere -> Oxenholme -> Warrington -> Holyhead.

Avanti drivers are now striking on this date so I'm assuming that the Oxenholme to Warrington leg won't run. (Of course it may run after all; if anyone has any idea what has happened previously, please let me know!)

There is a reasonable alternative via Manchester, using a TPE service from Oxenholme to Oxford Road, that connects into the same TFW service to Holyhead.

Questions:

- What are the SailRail ticket terms? I believe she has seat reservations; are these this-train-only (like Advances) or are they flexible?
- How, in practice, can she make seat reservations on the TPE? They will not want to stand.

Thanks!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could you find out the exact wording on the ticket as to which ticket type it is?

 

[endecotp]

Could you find out the exact wording on the ticket as to which ticket type it is?

I'll try. Is there more than one SailRail product?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll try. Is there more than one SailRail product?

There is certainly more than one ticket type used.

 

[endecotp]

Having looked at brfares.com, I see basically "SAILRAIL STNDBY" and "SAILRAIL ADVNCE", with variants for the different ferry companies. The boat departure is 1410 which I believe is Irish Ferries, so my guess is they have this one: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=WDM&dest=DFP&rte=980&tkt=SLA

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having looked at brfares.com, I see basically "SAILRAIL STNDBY" and "SAILRAIL ADVNCE", with variants for the different ferry companies. The boat departure is 1410 which I believe is Irish Ferries, so my guess is they have this one: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=WDM&dest=DFP&rte=980&tkt=SLA

We would need to know for certain which of the two it is. The former is a flexible ticket, the latter is not.

 

[endecotp]

I have asked. In the meantime, I suspect she is either booking a ryanair flight or cancelling the trip entirely because quote "the cost of buying those tickets via Manchester is much more than I paid for the SailRail ticket".

If anyone could explain, on the assumption that the ticket held is a "SAILRAIL ADVNCE", what the position is re taking a different route due to strikes, that would be great.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it is an Advance the usual approach is that you have to stick to the same TOC. Alternatively a refund.

Theoretically there is the right to be rerouted, but the chance of this being honoured is about nil.

 

[Starmill]

Your service provider is obliged to cover the alternative for you if they are running no train services, as is likely.

Therefore it makes sense to ask Avanti West Coast on the morning or on the night before travel if they've arranged for tickets to be used on the Northern / TransPennine Express / Transport for Wales services. Likely this will be the case, though every possibility it will be done in an undervertised way.

If Avanti were to tell you nothing is arranged you could refer to the station staff or train conductor, if possible. You then have an option to complete your journey by covering any any extra fare demanded at this point, and we can assist you with arranging for Avanti West Coast to pay this bill after the fact. But hopefully it wouldn't get that far.

If it is an Advance the usual approach is that you have to stick to the same TOC. Alternatively a refund.

Theoretically there is the right to be rerouted, but the chance of this being honoured is about nil.

Ticket acceptance is frequently in place on strike days, even if communications from the company imply that the only choices are a refund or travel another day. Really it's just about trying to get people put off.

If anyone could explain, on the assumption that the ticket held is a "SAILRAIL ADVNCE", what the position is re taking a different route due to strikes, that would be great.

If the route is definitely Holyhead Irish Ferries CIV, Avanti West Coast vs TransPennine Express is not material, because neither are mentioned in the restrictions.

 

[endecotp]

Would I be right in thinking that the chance of actually being able to get a seat reservation on e.g. the TPE train, now, without paying for a new ticket, is low?

These are not travellers who will want to stand, or have the possibility of standing, from Oxenholme to Manchester.

If the route is definitely Holyhead Irish Ferries CIV, Avanti West Coast vs TransPennine Express is not material, because neither are mentioned in the restrictions.

But it says "BOOKDTRAINONLY", and the booked train (for that leg) is Avanti WC.

 

[Starmill]

But it says "BOOKDTRAINONLY", and the booked train (for that leg) is Avanti WC.

Indeed so but the route doesn't restrict the ticket from being booked on TransPennine Express.

These are not travellers who will want to stand, or have the possibility of standing, from Oxenholme to Manchester.

Even with a reserved seat there'd be a possibility of standing.

 

[Mainline421]

If it is an Advance the usual approach is that you have to stick to the same TOC. Alternatively a refund.

Theoretically there is the right to be rerouted, but the chance of this being honoured is about nil.

Even if it is an Advance (which it might not be), it won't be TOC restricted so that doesn't apply here.

 

[Flying Snail]

As booked train only has been mentioned it will be the Sailrail Advance.

Option 1: Keep the ticket and use it on the alternative TPE, while there is always the possibility of some aggro from a staff these tickets are booked train but not booked route and as the original train is cancelled there is no justification in not allowing this reasonable alternative.

Use GWR website to get seat reservations for the TPE, TFW Rail don't do reservations.

Option 2: get a full refund as the train is cancelled and re-book either another Advance (will cost the same price) or (my preference) the Sailrail Standby for approx £5 more which is not restricted to any fixed trains, along with an itinerary on your new route which will give you your reservations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even if it is an Advance (which it might not be), it won't be TOC restricted so that doesn't apply here.

I was of the understanding that with Advances the entitlement is to travel a reserved segment on the same TOC as booked, regardless of any TOC restriction on the ticket (e.g. if it's routed in the traditional way e.g. "AP <place>").

Option 2: get a full refund as the train is cancelled and re-book either another Advance (will cost the same price) or (my preference) the Sailrail Standby for approx £5 more which is not restricted to any fixed trains, along with an itinerary on your new route which will give you your reservations.

If it would be the same price I would 100% do this as it would save any possibility of arguments.

 

[Haywain]

I was of the understanding that with Advances the entitlement is to travel a reserved segment on the same TOC as booked, regardless of any TOC restriction on the ticket (e.g. if it's routed in the traditional way e.g. "AP <place>").

The routeing on the ticket should be followed, so if that is 'TOC X' then sticking with that TOC is the restriction but if it is a place then any TOC going via that place will be fine.

 

[Starmill]

I was of the understanding that with Advances the entitlement is to travel a reserved segment on the same TOC as booked, regardless of any TOC restriction on the ticket (e.g. if it's routed in the traditional way e.g. "AP <place>").

The restriction must be followed as written in normal circumstances. If you're following it, you're fine.