Services which ought to have a refreshment trolley

[MG11]

Which services do you think ought to have a refreshment trolley, but doesn't? Perhaps some long distance Northern services should e.g. York - Blackpool North, Nottingham - Leeds, both services serve large towns over an extensive journey period/milage, certainly the coffee lovers would revel in the chance to buy a flat white on board. London Midland's from/to London services would also benefit from a trolley as well. I know they trialled it before, but I read they charged silly prices like £1 for a hot drink. If they charged say £2.40+ for drinks and sold desirable brands (Kettle Chips etc), they could surely provide an in-dispensable convenience, especially with business travellers.

 

[BigCj34]

£1 for a hot drink is far from silly, in fact many might buy it! Personally I would say Cumbria Coast, Tyne Valley line, Morecambe Leeds (not sure how stable a drinks trolley would be on a Pacer though). The Carlisle to Leeds service at least has a trolley courtesy of the Settle to Carlisle society. Also Peterborough to Colchester, which in my opinion should have mroe services that way but that's another discussion.

 

[185143]

The cumbrian 37s should *DEFINATELY* have a trolley onboard given how many cranks go out to bash it! They'd make a ton on it

 

[High Dyke]

All VTEC services on the ECML, but seemingly don't always due to "staff shortage".

 

[Kite159]

The cumbrian 37s should *DEFINATELY* have a trolley onboard given how many cranks go out to bash it! They'd make a ton on it

Although depends what sort of cranks, as I overheard one of the ATW trolley guys about the rush when the loco gets swapped over on the Manchester set, however the majority of them don't buy anything from the trolley as they have their own supplies.

 

[MG11]

Although depends what sort of cranks, as I overheard one of the ATW trolley guys about the rush when the loco gets swapped over on the Manchester set, however the majority of them don't buy anything from the trolley as they have their own supplies.

Perhaps a niche could be created with in-house ales, like Virgin's Hop On Board?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Perhaps a niche could be created with in-house ales, like Virgin's Hop On Board?

Don't you mean Arriv... oh- I see what you did there!

 

[martinsh]

Any service on which journeys of 90 minutes plus are likely to be undertaken regularly, should have a trolley service.

 

[yorksrob]

A few of mine:

Leeds - Morecambe
Middlesbrough - Whitby
Leeds - Hull
Ashford - Brighton
Ashford - Charing Cross (bring it back !!)

I agree with the suggestion regarding the Cumbrian Coast

 

[47802]

Well travelling to Carnforth from Leeds the other week I went to Greggs and got a Coffee and Bacon Roll which is what I do for most trips buy before, unless I am really pushed for time. If the catering can be done profitably or at least meet its costs then fine, if not forget we don't want another cost to add to the ticket price or subsidy.

 

[yorksrob]

On journeys of over an hour, I tend to like a cup of tea mid way through.

 

[306024]

And how many would go bust within a month? There may be a good reason why catering isn’t provided, try making a living from it. That said the Settle - Carlisle line had a trolley service that was doing good trade the other week, but are those staff volunteers?

 

[yorksrob]

The OP asked which services we thought ought to have a trolley, rather than a costed business case.

I simply went by which ones I would like to have a cup of tea on.

As it happens, the cafe at Middlesbrough station had a trolley on the Whitby line one year. It seemed to do a reasonable trade !

 

[MG11]

And how many would go bust within a month? There may be a good reason why catering isn’t provided, try making a living from it. That said the Settle - Carlisle line had a trolley service that was doing good trade the other week, but are those staff volunteers?

A quick scroll through TOCs' Twitter feeds reveals many customers complaining about lack of catering.....

 

[47802]

The OP asked which services we thought ought to have a trolley, rather than a costed business case.

Well yes but if there is no business case for it, its somewhat pointless. haven't Northern opted to provide Catering at Connect Stations rather than provide on train catering on Connect Services

 

[306024]

Oh well if Twitter is the basis for the business case it will be a licence to print money. Perhaps all the cranks could form a company, think of the free mileage.

Had a nice cup of tea on the Romford - Upminster service Saturday, bought on Romford station though.

 

[MG11]

Well yes but if there is no business case for it, its somewhat pointless. haven't Northern opted to provide Catering at Connect Stations rather than provide on train catering on Connect Services

If they charge a high enough price, then they can make a profit.

 

[trainmananthon]

And how many would go bust within a month? There may be a good reason why catering isn’t provided, try making a living from it. That said the Settle - Carlisle line had a trolley service that was doing good trade the other week, but are those staff volunteers?

Nope. All trolley staff on our line are paid staff. But some of us volunteers do help out if we can

 

[Dr Hoo]

A factor not often mentioned is the suitability (or lack of it) of rolling stock for a trolley service. In particular the width of gangway (especially with 3+2 seating layouts) and the availability of tables or shelves for hot drinks. It is far from ideal to be dishing out scalding coffee to somebody who can only suspend it over their lap.
for example many Northern trains with 'unsuitable' interiors deteriorate rapidly during the day with spilt carry-on drinks, bottles rolling around and so forth. These can easily form another safety hazard.

 

[MG11]

A factor not often mentioned is the suitability (or lack of it) of rolling stock for a trolley service. In particular the width of gangway (especially with 3+2 seating layouts) and the availability of tables or shelves for hot drinks. It is far from ideal to be dishing out scalding coffee to somebody who can only suspend it over their lap.
for example many Northern trains with 'unsuitable' interiors deteriorate rapidly during the day with spilt carry-on drinks, bottles rolling around and so forth. These can easily form another safety hazard.

I see your point but Arriva TW 3+2s operate trolleys...

 

[MG11]

A menu like this would give a good profit margin.
Tea £2.40
Coffe £2.60
Latte £2.90
Crisps £1.40
Popcorn £1.50
Sandwiches £4.50
Lager £4.50

Etc...Enough to cover staffing/facilities costs

 

[PeterC]

A menu like this would give a good profit margin.
Tea £2.40
Coffe £2.60
Latte £2.90
Crisps £1.40
Popcorn £1.50
Sandwiches £4.50
Lager £4.50

Etc...Enough to cover staffing/facilities costs

But then you still have to provide the service regularly and reliably at a loss until passengers learn that they don't need to bring their own sandwiches to be sure of on board refreshments.

 

[takno]

A menu like this would give a good profit margin.
Tea £2.40
Coffe £2.60
Latte £2.90
Crisps £1.40
Popcorn £1.50
Sandwiches £4.50
Lager £4.50

Etc...Enough to cover staffing/facilities costs

Latte from a trolley is just going to be some powdered concoction. I guess some people might pay 2.90 for it, but I can't see it. As somebody who routinely goes and spends a fiver on train catering I'd have to say you're around 50p too high for me on every item there.

 

[gnolife]

If they charge a high enough price, then they can make a profit.

There's not much of a window though - charge too little, make a loss on each sale, charge too much, you get no sales. I personally regard £2 as being my 'no deal' point for instant hot drinks of the kind that a trolley typically provides, but would regard £1 as remarkably good value.

 

[MG11]

But then you still have to provide the service regularly and reliably at a loss until passengers learn that they don't need to bring their own sandwiches to be sure of on board refreshments.

Marketing via Instagram etc should get word around Virgin and EMT use that avenue and Virgin's catering has never been in uncertainty....

 

[47802]

If they charge a high enough price, then they can make a profit.

And that's why I'm likely to by before hand if possible because I can probably get it significantly cheaper and a better choice. If there was money to be made out of on-board catering on regional trains then the TOC would be doing the fact they aren't would suggest there isn't.

 

[DelayRepay]

Marketing via Instagram etc should get word around Virgin and EMT use that avenue and Virgin's catering has never been in uncertainty....

I don't trust EMT catering. I typically travel back from Sheffield to London on a Sunday and have found the catering to be missing often enough not to rely on it. I get my coffee at the station before boarding now. If I am travelling first class I might get a second cup later in the journey, but I don't rely on anything being available.

 

[MG11]

I don't trust EMT catering. I typically travel back from Sheffield to London on a Sunday and have found the catering to be missing often enough not to rely on it. I get my coffee at the station before boarding now. If I am travelling first class I might get a second cup later in the journey, but I don't rely on anything being available.

I am not one for slagging off TOCs and I love EMT but their catering does seem a little hit and miss. If it were more reliable, would you use it?

 

[yorksrob]

A factor not often mentioned is the suitability (or lack of it) of rolling stock for a trolley service. In particular the width of gangway (especially with 3+2 seating layouts) and the availability of tables or shelves for hot drinks. It is far from ideal to be dishing out scalding coffee to somebody who can only suspend it over their lap.
for example many Northern trains with 'unsuitable' interiors deteriorate rapidly during the day with spilt carry-on drinks, bottles rolling around and so forth. These can easily form another safety hazard.

That is indeed down to unsuitable interior specifications. Given that all of Northerns diesel units can, and do end up on journeys of around two hours, there's no excuse not to have included table provision in previous refurbs. The excellent job done on some of the 150's used in Wessex is a good example of what can be done.

 

[yorksrob]

And that's why I'm likely to by before hand if possible because I can probably get it significantly cheaper and a better choice. If there was money to be made out of on-board catering on regional trains then the TOC would be doing the fact they aren't would suggest there isn't.

Except the fact that the friends of the S&C manage it.