Settle - Carlisle speeds

[GNERman]

anyone know speeds of the settle - carlisle line
is it 75 or 90 or less?

 

[The Planner]

Mainly 60mph with 30mph over Ribblehead, some 50mph near Carlisle.

 

[boing_uk]

I have to say that line speeds are something that do interest me on the railway. What decides them? I know that it has *something* to do with the underlying trackbed and on structures a different speed limit is understandable but I travel mostly every day between Blackpool and Blackburn on a 158 and the speed limits dont seem to make much sense...

For instance:

Blackpool North to about 3/4 mile before Poulton-le-Fylde is 70.

It then slows to 35 just prior to the Poulton Down(?) Distant signal (its 70 in the other direction), then 20 through the junction which is understandable I guess although I would've thought 25 or 30 might be possible.

It then raises to 50 through P-l-F station then there is a 60/70(MU) limit to Kirkham. Why? I am presuming that this is because of track bed or structures with having a differential limit?

Through Kirkham its: 40 on the avoiding line up to the points which are 30 (this seems a little slow bearing in mind that the track geometry isnt much different to Mill Hill, mentioned later); or 30 through the crossover and 40 through the station rising to 75 just past the end of the platform.

Going in the other direction here its; 30 through the crossover if using the avoiding lines and depending on the driver its either trundle along about 40/45 or full throttle to reach 70 by the time you reach the crossover. Or if going through the platforms its 45, slowing to 30 through the junction.

Approaching Preston its 35 just from the end of the viaduct (again why as its 40 I think in the other direction).

Leaving Preston everything seems reasonable until you get to the top of the incline and through Lostock Hall which is an odd 40mph, rising to 45 as far as Bamber Bridge, then 60 just before the platforms then 70 just after the level crossing (although depending on driver, as sometimes from the 45 marker they just put it in notch 6 or 7 and just plough through Bamber Bridge at speed), which seems odd as well. In the other direction is goes straight from 70 to 45.

In to Mill Hill its 50, which I presume is because of track geometry, then 70 as far as the junction with the Bolton line dropping to 50 through the Blackburn platforms. That length of 70 is so short that I dont think its physically possible to even get to that speed before having to slow again for the 50.

What I cant understand is the fact that some relatively straight sections of track have seemingly low limits, such as between Lostock Hall and Bamber Bridge. I can understand it at the crossovers and points being lower, but some of the others just dont seem to make much sense to me.

Could anyone provide an explanation?

 

[The Planner]

All manner of things. Signal spacing, braking distances, cant of the track, curves, gauge and kinematic envelope, condition of structures, condition of the ground, weight and capability of the traction (no point having a 100mph limit, if the train isnt going to reach it.), but a fair chunk is probably the cost of maintaining it. The higher the line speed the more frequent the checks need to be done on it, fixing it etc... if the cost outweighs the benefits, then its never going to be increased.

 

[jp4712]

You'll find infrastructure information, including speed limits for the whole of Network Rail, here:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...ge, Permissible line speeds&pageid=5523&root=

 

[david.stannard]

Thank you jp4712 for that link that gives access to electronic line speed information. Most useful. Does anyone know if there a similar link that gives electronic access to national gradient information? Many thanks.
David.S

 

[SouthEastern-465]

im not at expert but im sure that the speed limit use to be 105 M.P.H around some of the line?

 

[The Planner]

I doubt it !! 105 seems stupidly quick for the gradients and signalling past or present.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thank you jp4712 for that link that gives access to electronic line speed information. Most useful. Does anyone know if there a similar link that gives electronic access to national gradient information? Many thanks.
David.S

There isnt anything on gradients in the same way as the appendix. The only thing that shows them are 5 mile diagrams, but they arent available to the public as far as Im aware. Im sure Ian Allen does a gradient book of all the old main lines.

 

[Pumbaa]

im not at expert but im sure that the speed limit use to be 105 M.P.H around some of the line?

Very obviously not an expert.

 

[Metroland]

The gradients are as follows:

Climb starts around just north of Skipton, and climbs at various rate (usually around 1 in 165) to just north of Bell busk and drops back done to Settle Junction, where the S&C proper starts.

It then a ruling gradient of 1 in 100, all the way to Blea moor tunnel, when it levels out for a while, although there is a small climb just north of Garsdale (Hawes Junction). The Summit is at Ais Gill (1169 ft above sea level) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7mVOZk54M then it drops down at a ruling gradient of in in 100, toward Appleby, when it falls at a lesser rate, of between 1 in 240 to 1 in 132 all the way to Carlisle. No wonder Carlisle to Ais Gill, which is nearly 50 miles is known as the Long Drag.

The line was built as a main line, by the midland railway, so it is laid out for quite high speed. It was busiest in the early 20th century, as evidenced by the accident high on the Fells at Hawes Junction Christmas Eve in 1910, many of the engines pilot engines for use of getting steam trains over the long grades

4.6am engines 548 and 448 arrived from Aisgill
4.14am down express passed; engines 548 and 448 were then turned and parked in the branch platform line
4.36am engines247, 249, 313 and 314 arrived from Aisgill coupled together
4.41am down "fitted" goods passed; engines 247, 249, 313 and 314 were then crossed to the turntable road
4.47am engines 317, 312 and 42 arrived from Aisgill, coupled together and were crossed to the turntable road
4.49am up through goods passed
5.20am down special express passed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawes_Junction_rail_crash