Shortages of train crew

[Daveydavey6028]

Why nowadays, do I often see that some trains are cancelled, due to a shortage of train crew? Years ago, I don't remember seeing these reasons. West Midlands trains have cancelled one today on the Liverpool line, apparently due to this. Northern have been the worst for this recently. It shakes my confidence a little, as I don't want to get stranded on a day out.

 

[class 9]

The majority of TOCs Driver wise don't have rest day working agreements, so trains get cancelled instead of paying for overtime, this is because TOCs have to cut costs at all costs, as directed by the DfT.
So if you see a government minister on TV saying 'we have to put the passenger first' is telling bare faced lies!!

 

[Mat17]

TPE don't even bother giving reasons for their cancellations anymore.

 

[43066]

The majority of TOCs Driver wise don't have rest day working agreements, so trains get cancelled instead of paying for overtime, this is because TOCs have to cut costs at all costs, as directed by the DfT.
So if you see a government minister on TV saying 'we have to put the passenger first' is telling bare faced lies!!

The majority of TOCs do still have RDW agreements still in place.

I think it’s TPE and XC that don’t (?), due to the DfT refusing to allow the TOCs to renew their existing arrangements, with LNER drivers now also not working RDs as industrial action.

Having an RDW agreement doesn’t mean trains won’t ever be cancelled due to lack of traincrew, of course.

 

[The exile]

The majority of TOCs Driver wise don't have rest day working agreements, so trains get cancelled instead of paying for overtime, this is because TOCs have to cut costs at all costs, as directed by the DfT.
So if you see a government minister on TV saying 'we have to put the passenger first' is telling bare faced lies!!

Not to mention years of kowtowing to the kind of back room penny pinchers to whom anything that isn’t being sweated to an inch of its life is automatically a waste- rather than a valuable provision for flexibility and public confidence and who are desperate to earn their gold star by screwing even more “efficiency” out of the system than their predecessor - usually without much thought for the long-term consequences- after all, by then they’ll be earning their hefty pay-packets on an entirely different consultancy project.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Things might, or might not, improve with the new timetable starting next week.
Avanti in particular is saying there will be fewer cancellations. We shall see...
Clock face train times are also changing significantly on the WCML (Avanti and WMT), so last week's times and connections might not work next week.

 

[Matt_pool]

The 19.56 and 20.26 Northern services from Liverpool to man Oxford Rd were both cancelled yesterday with no reasons given. So if you had missed the 19.25 the next train you could get is the 20.55.

The 20.26 is regularly cancelled.

 

[VauxhallNova]

The majority of TOCs do still have RDW agreements still in place.

I think it’s TPE and XC that don’t (?), due to the DfT refusing to allow the TOCs to renew their existing arrangements, with LNER drivers now also not working RDs as industrial action.

Having an RDW agreement doesn’t mean trains won’t ever be cancelled due to lack of traincrew, of course.

Didn't ASLEF withdraw the TPE one?

"There's also been lots of talk about rest day working. The RDW agreement on TPE wasn't renewed because they broke an agreement to keep our members safe during the height of Covid (allowing drivers to wait at home when 'sitting spare' rather than in busy mess rooms)."

https://twitter.com/ASLEFunion/status/1598709688102789120

 

[setdown]

Why nowadays, do I often see that some trains are cancelled, due to a shortage of train crew? Years ago, I don't remember seeing these reasons. West Midlands trains have cancelled one today on the Liverpool line, apparently due to this. Northern have been the worst for this recently. It shakes my confidence a little, as I don't want to get stranded on a day out.

Yeesh, the Liverpool services were so much worse for this back in the day under London Midland. There were Saturdays where they’d just give up and have buses all day between Crewe and Liverpool. It’s a different (better) world now.

 

[trainophile]

Was stuck at Brum today en route from Lime Street to Hereford, 14:50 cancelled (particularly annoying as the LIV-BHM arrives at 13:50 so you already have to wait around for an hour), then the 15:50 terminated at Worcs Shrub Hill so everyone (two trains worth) had to wait for the 17:33 ex-Shrub Hill or do what I did (for warmth mainly, but also I didn't quite trust that another BHM-HFD train would actually call at Shrub Hill) and take a GWR to Foregate Street. Finally got back just over two hours late. Delay Repay claim has gone in.

Very apologetic announcements on the BHM-WOS train about today's problems being due to driver shortages. I feel this is only going to get worse.

 

[Granpuff]

At our TOC we got a RDW agreement with the drivers a few months back (there was already a guards one) can't say take up has been great though, very few want to work them.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Let's be honest, the "shortage of train crew" message is just a polite way of saying "we can't be bothered to run this train". Both Northern and TPE have hidden behind this excuse for far too long.

 

[trainophile]

Let's be honest, the "shortage of train crew" message is just a polite way of saying "we can't be bothered to run this train". Both Northern and TPE have hidden behind this excuse for far too long.

Slightly more acceptable than "due to a short notice change to the timetable" though.

 

[43066]

Didn't ASLEF withdraw the TPE one?

Didn’t ASLEF withdraw it initially in protest at the Covid response but, when those issues had been resolved, the company wasn’t allowed to renew it?!

 

[73001]

Merseyrail suffering today from 'a shortage of train crew' (as well as the icy third rail conditions that cause disruption yesterday). Lots of cancellations on the Wirral lines.

 

[30907]

Going back to the original question, on top of the specific pressures related to rest-day working:
there is a general shortage of qualified people in many industries, businesses and voluntary organisations (and in other European countries).
There are various reasons:
the safety precautions taken during the pandemic have delayed training/recruiting;
more people than expected have not returned to previous work post WFH, or have decided they can afford to retire/cut down;
there is a considerable amount of additional long-term sickness caused by covid or lockdown (take your pick!);
people are more likely to stay away from work if feeling unwell.

Not all these necessarily apply to traincrew, of course.

And it has happened before - back in the late 70s the Southern in particular was desperately short of guards, and cancellations were common, as was a lot of overtime.

 

[aleandrail]

Let's be honest, the "shortage of train crew" message is just a polite way of saying "we can't be bothered to run this train". Both Northern and TPE have hidden behind this excuse for far too long.

A spike in sickness levels is a common feature during an industrial dispute

 

[Falcon1200]

And it has happened before - back in the late 70s the Southern in particular was desperately short of guards, and cancellations were common, as was a lot of overtime.

Yes indeed, shortage of Traincrew is in no shape or form confined to today's railway; Two examples come to mind:

Late 70s; Two (or it may even have been three) consecutive evening Liverpool St-Bishops Stortford trains cancelled, no Driver; Only when a group of angry passengers besieged the Station Manager's office did BR condescend to put stop orders on a Cambridge express (contempt for passengers is nothing new either).
Late 80s; As Driver Only Operation (DOO) was soon to be introduced on Glasgow's North Side electric suburban routes, BR let the number of Guards reduce by not filling vacancies, however DOO was then delayed. Every single day Control and Train Crew Supervisors worked ceaselessly to try and cover as many trains as possible, but cancellations were inevitable. One train, which I still recall to this day, the 1657 Bellgrove-Dalmuir, simply never ran, because it came empty from the depot and returned afterwards to the depot, cancelling it freed up a Guard for more useful work.

 

[12LDA28C]

Of course, there is an industry-wide shortage of drivers caused by various factors including an ageing workforce and more trains running than in previous years (notwithstanding Covid reductions in service - if operators currently running a reduced service were allowed to attempt to restore a full service there would certainly be a serious shortage of staff)

Even at TOCs that have a RDW agreement, the current industrial action and general feeling amongst staff is leading to a withdrawal of 'goodwill' and a consequent reduction in willingness to work Rest Days, overtime etc even if there is the opportunity to do so. This will expose an operator's reliance on OT and RDW to run the timetabled trains and result in cancellations, as is being seen.

 

[317 forever]

Yesterday late afternoon at Manchester Oxford Road there were some cancellations, in some cases due to shortage of train crew. In 2 cases - an East Midlands train to Liverpool and a Trans Pennine train to the Airport - the trains ran through Oxford Road without stopping. A waste of energy and rubbing the passengers' noses in it.

 

[ARIC]

Yesterday late afternoon at Manchester Oxford Road there were some cancellations, in some cases due to shortage of train crew. In 2 cases - an East Midlands train to Liverpool and a Trans Pennine train to the Airport - the trains ran through Oxford Road without stopping. A waste of energy and rubbing the passengers' noses in it.

Whilst I'm sure TOCs would love the ability to teleport trains without their required conductors to where they're next needed without the need to use the railway itself, but the technology just isn't there yet.

 

[317 forever]

Whilst I'm sure TOCs would love the ability to teleport trains without their required conductors to where they're next needed without the need to use the railway itself, but the technology just isn't there yet.

A little sarcastic, but yes the examples that would make sense would be if there is guaranteed train crew at the other end to enable the trains to be used in service. For example, maybe the East Midlands train I mentioned would have had crew available for it at Liverpool to run the return journey from Liverpool to Nottingham or Norwich.

 

[godfreycomplex]

A spike in sickness levels is a common feature during an industrial dispute

And also in winter virus season to be fair

 

[Llandudno]

And also in winter virus season to be fair

and a certain football match on TV!

 

[Western 52]

Out of interest, are railway systems elsewhere in the world having similar crew shortages to the UK? Do they have as many delayed and cancelled trains as we do for staff shortage reasons?

 

[30907]

Out of interest, are railway systems elsewhere in the world having similar crew shortages to the UK? Do they have as many delayed and cancelled trains as we do for staff shortage reasons?

I am aware of issues in Germany (because I read a German forum) and the Netherlands. How they compare I don't know - strangely enough German posters can be highly critical of German operators in comparison with other countries'....

 

[the sniper]

I am aware of issues in Germany (because I read a German forum) and the Netherlands. How they compare I don't know - strangely enough German posters can be highly critical of German operators in comparison with other countries'....

Even pre-Covid wasn't DB being viewed by many Germans with the kind of attitude commonly shown here towards BR in the eighties? Isn't something like 'typical Deutsche Bahn' a common phrase? There's a thin line between efficiency and failure, but the Germans seem to have a low amount of tolerance for the latter!