A query has come up in the disputes sub-forum where a passenger refused to tap the reader of a TfL plain clothes RPI with their bank card. They hadn't seen a plain clothes RPI before and were scared of falling victim to a payment scam. A contributor pointed out how relatively simple it would be for a fraudster to set themselves up make a very nice illicit income this way. Should the practice of using plain clothes RPIs cease in Contactless ticket areas in recognition of the risk that it poses for passengers?
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Should RPIs in Contactless ticket areas all be in uniform?
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Snow1964
Established Member
As it would just as easy for a fraudster to put on a cap or jacket made out to look like like a uniform, I don't think it will solve anything. If you have never met an RPI before then they are unlikely to be able to describe or recognise the specified uniform.
A plain clothes officer flashing a badge that someone has never seen before is also unlikely to convince anyone being cautious about scams.
However it would be much better if the hand held scanners are prominently marked as Ticket checker, especially those that don't look much different to a smartphone in a case.
It is the fear of allowing an unknown scanner be used (in case it is contactless money grabbing) rather than the appearance of individual with it.
A plain clothes officer flashing a badge that someone has never seen before is also unlikely to convince anyone being cautious about scams.
However it would be much better if the hand held scanners are prominently marked as Ticket checker, especially those that don't look much different to a smartphone in a case.
It is the fear of allowing an unknown scanner be used (in case it is contactless money grabbing) rather than the appearance of individual with it.
I don't know how common plain clothes inspectors are on TfL. I don't think I've ever come across one although I've been challenged by them several times on much less frequent trips on German local transport.
It was just a thought that a fake plain clothes inspector could almost instantly blend into the crowd if suspected, whereas any sort of fake uniform would leave them looking conspicuous, however cleverly designed. Most people see TfL uniforms on every London train journey they make, so would be reasonably familiar with the genuine article.
It was just a thought that a fake plain clothes inspector could almost instantly blend into the crowd if suspected, whereas any sort of fake uniform would leave them looking conspicuous, however cleverly designed. Most people see TfL uniforms on every London train journey they make, so would be reasonably familiar with the genuine article.
I get an alert on my phone and watch pretty instantaneously whenever funds leave my account, including amount and name of payee, so I imagine anyone trying to skim money at a gateline or on board a train would be rumbled pretty quickly once enough people realise what's happening.
Also as the treasurer of a charity my experience of setting up a contactless device to receive contactless payments is not "easy". Sure you can buy readers for about £30 and I have the Zettle app on my phone for this purpose, but had to go through all sorts of hoops to get through the 'know your customer' checks to activate the service and validate the account nominated for receiving funds.
Also as the treasurer of a charity my experience of setting up a contactless device to receive contactless payments is not "easy". Sure you can buy readers for about £30 and I have the Zettle app on my phone for this purpose, but had to go through all sorts of hoops to get through the 'know your customer' checks to activate the service and validate the account nominated for receiving funds.
Thanks for that info. I guess there would enough people set up like yourself to make skimming a fairly risky operation, as the culprit would still be standing there when the alert came through!
That's my thinking!
The devices TfL and others use are also going to be very different to the Zettle/SumUp/Square readers which are readily available.
Apologies if my post wasn't clear, Zettle now allow contactless payments to be taken directly by tapping on an iphone without the need for a standalone reader, so it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that depending on how smartphone-like the official readers look there could be some suspicion
Can you skim a card with a tap? Ie get enough info to replicate the card and start using it?
Using a real card reader to take money would be short lived I assume as customers would get their bank to refund and the reader would get banned pretty quickly.
Pretty high risk environment to do it in, trapped in a train with lots of witnesses and cameras.
If it really was an issue the answer would be a phone line on the website that you could ring to check an ID.
Using a real card reader to take money would be short lived I assume as customers would get their bank to refund and the reader would get banned pretty quickly.
Pretty high risk environment to do it in, trapped in a train with lots of witnesses and cameras.
If it really was an issue the answer would be a phone line on the website that you could ring to check an ID.
dosbod stuey
Member
Fluorescent jackets still seem to somehow carry an air of authority or position despite being available for about £3 on every market 
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
This would be an extremely high risk crime as others have pointed out, as the chance of being rumbled on Day 1 would be pretty high. You can find TfL uniform on eBay or Vinted anyway. Or just get some made yourself in China.
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swt_passenger
Veteran Member
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It’s been discussed quite a few times in these forums, I found posts from 2019 with a quick search. I think most discussions have come to the conclusion it isn't a problem to worry about.
The Revenue Inspection Devices (RIDs) in use are used in a fairly distinctive yellow case, the screen that is displayed when scanning has the TFL and National Rail logo's displayed as well. Obviously if you want to make sure you can just ask to see security ID or warrant, but in reality I'm really not aware of this actually being an issue, I've certainly not come across anything like this or heard of anything from customers when checking in PAYG areas.