Should the NRM give the Lynton and Barnstaple railway Brake/Observation coach to the L&B trust?

[Trainlog]

As the railway is expected to grow in passenger numbers when the Blackmoor gate extension is done, one thing that comes to mind is the need for probably one more rake of coaches on that line if the demand calls for it or for something to be of use when the other coaches are undergoing maintenance. As L&B relics are very rare and the Surviving coaches are well looked after on that line, is it about time for the NRM to donate the coach and instead bring in a standard gauge coach in a similar condition to replace it at York for the Garden coach exhibition?


Source:https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/420382946457617260/

 

[geoffk]

Not sure if there is any spare undercover storage.

 

[Train Maniac]

Im pretty certain it would be easier / cheaper for Woody Bay or Boston Lodge to whip one up from scratch. The NRM tend to... like to keep there belongings where they are, rather than give them out to heritage railways at random (excluding T3 and Staff Tank)

 

[IanH440]

WIBN if No2 could be displayed undercover at the Old Railways Station Inn at Blackmoor as part of exanding the facilities as the railway expands....sort of Museum with catering facilities much like york....

Ian

 

[the sniper]

As the railway is expected to grow in passenger numbers when the Blackmoor gate extension is done, one thing that comes to mind is the need for probably one more rake of coaches on that line if the demand calls for it or for something to be of use when the other coaches are undergoing maintenance. As L&B relics are very rare and the Surviving coaches are well looked after on that line, is it about time for the NRM to donate the coach and instead bring in a standard gauge coach in a similar condition to replace it at York for the Garden coach exhibition?

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Source:https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/420382946457617260/

If it were to run on the L&B it'd essentially almost need to be a new build, as I believe all the carriages they use now have metal underframes, whereas the original carriages had wooden underframes. Probably better to keep it in a museum as an original example.

 

[alf]

As we are talking L&B is there any news of progress?

They were suppose to buy the pub, the former station, at Blackmoor gate & had great expansion plans. Hsv3 they bought it?
Blackmoor would be a great place to display the coach, perhaps parallel to the main road to draw people in.

I occasionally dip into their web site but month after month, almost year after year, it has no news, apart from the sale of raffle tickets & table displays at other heritage events.

 

[Trainlog]

As we are talking L&B is there any news of progress?

They were suppose to buy the pub, the former station, at Blackmoor gate & had great expansion plans. Hsv3 they bought it?
Blackmoor would be a great place to display the coach, perhaps parallel to the main road to draw people in.

I occasionally dip into their web site but month after month, almost year after year, it has no news, apart from the sale of raffle tickets & table displays at other heritage events.

Happy to talk all things Narrow gauge. Essentially the main findings i have come across that they are making talks for it and hopefully something might come of it next year. When it comes to the lines extension i recommend that the emphasis atm should be placed on getting Parracombe done first, as it will go from one station to another with a couple of miles added which could attract more enthusiasts in to visit and i hope will create a Welsh highland railway effect. (Slow to take off but the minute the first extension was done the growth was rather rapid afterwards.)

If anyone is interested in donating to it i have put the link down below.

Return to Parracombe Appeal - October Update | The Lynton & Barnstaple Railway

Our journey along the line of the Return to Parracombe appeal now stands in excess of £680k, including Gift Aid. Only a further £20k is required to reach Bridge 64.

www.lynton-rail.co.uk

As a few members on this thread has suggested for the coach being put on display at Blackmoor when the extension is fully done, i think that is a good idea, kinda like what the SDR has done with Tiny on the other side of the county in the Buckfastleigh museum.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I would say yes. I understand the argument about wanting to keep it all original but my sentimental side would rather see it earning its keep in its former home than looking like something found in a field.

 

[Trainlog]

I would say yes. I understand the argument about wanting to keep it all original but my sentimental side would rather see it earning its keep in its former home than looking like something found in a field.

I mean this is the thing, as the L&B is the complete antipode to the Welshpool and Llanfair railway where only the rolling stock mainly survives intact from the lines closure, there is probably more of a case to resurrect any surviving rolling stock to run on the line if they could get their hands on it. They have done some really good work on restoring pieces that have survived from coaches and making near full complete rebuilds of them in the process.

My personal favourite coach the Centre observation one, was in-fact nearly all broken up apart from the Observation section, and it was fully reincorporated into the 'rebuilt' coach which is a nice tribute to the former one. Was lucky enough when i visited to ride in that section of the coach but you have to be quick to claim it!

When it comes to the fate of the last 2 members that isn't on the L&B, i dont mind how no2 (the NRM one) is preserved going forwards providing its at its former home, however, i will say that number 14 should stay on the Ffestiniog as its just as much a part of that line in the near 70years of preservation as it was to the L&B in its official working lifetime. There is another interesting story in itself about how the coach came to that line with it having to be completley dismanteled in Devon and moved in segments to the Ffestiniog in the early days of its preservation, its a small but interesting story in the large Ffestiniog anthology of preservation!

An good resource on the fates of the L&B coaches if anyone is interested.

Lynton and Barnstaple Railway Trust - Heritage Carriages Project | The Lynton & Barnstaple Railway

Lynton and Barnstaple Railway passengers were very fortunate as they were able to travel in mainline carriages in miniature. These marvels of Victorian engineering, unique to Devon's premier narrow gauge railway were designed to offer visitors the best views of North Devon scenery from a train...

www.lynton-rail.org.uk

 

[Halifaxlad]

is it about time for the NRM to donate the coach and instead bring in a standard gauge coach in a similar condition to replace it at York for the Garden coach exhibition?

A can imagine a few issues coming to mind, one being space another finding a standard gauge 'Garden coach' whatever that is ?

Perhaps it would be useful to understand its history and why the NRM has it ?

Also if it was restored to operational standard I'm the original paint on the outside would be lost and no-doubt most of the upholstered interior which I think would be a shame.

 

[Trainlog]

A can imagine a few issues coming to mind, one being space another finding a standard gauge 'Garden coach' whatever that is ?

Perhaps it would be useful to understand its history and why the NRM has it ?

Also if it was restored to operational standard I'm the original paint on the outside would be lost and no-doubt most of the upholstered interior which I think would be a shame.

I beg to differ as there are a fair amount of garden coaches around on heritage railways, farms, back gardens, in fact look on ebay though they are mainly old BR wagons they are selling them on as tool sheds, so there is more than generally though of in this category.

I interpret the history of the NRM having the coach as its an original L&B piece and with the context of the NRMs founding date of 1975 in mind, i reckon its in the collection as it was the only complete one left as the Ffestiniog altered the other complete L&B coach with the other survivors being in pieces. The reason i bring up the ownership question is that a lot has happened since the NRM's founding with the L&B being rather successful and respectful with the artifacts it has acquired since reopening in the past 30 years and the NRM has disposed of a lot of rolling stock than the locos we have heard about in the past 5 years.

Special Visit to the NRM | The Lynton & Barnstaple Railway

Andrew Lowe recently sent us this report. On Thursday the 17th November, six friends and members of the Lynton & Barnstaple Railway Trust visited the National Railway Museum in York. The NRM contains a number of L&B artefacts, including coach 6992, and locomotive nameplates. However the NRM...

www.lynton-rail.org.uk

The last one yes i agree it is in an okay condition on the inside and granted its in a well regulated environment in the NRM main hall, however its not like its still not going to be vulnerable to any further cases of potential deterioration. I do see your point that its a good portal into the coach in its original condition on the inside, but it depends if people want the originality or it to last longer by being restored?

 

[Pinza-C55]

It depends what the purpose of displaying it in its current condition in the NRM is. If the purpose is to display an example of L&B rolling stock then the NRM are doing a disservice to the people who visit and might think L&B coaches ran around in this shocking state, If the purpose is to show what a railway coach looks like after serving as a hen house then any recovered coach would do.
BTW my parents and I holidayed on the Isle Of Man in 1975 and I vividly remember walking from Douglas to St Johns and finding the carriage shed full of old narrow gauge coaches - I wonder if any survived ?

 

[Trainlog]

It depends what the purpose of displaying it in its current condition in the NRM is. If the purpose is to display an example of L&B rolling stock then the NRM are doing a disservice to the people who visit and might think L&B coaches ran around in this shocking state, If the purpose is to show what a railway coach looks like after serving as a hen house then any recovered coach would do.
BTW my parents and I holidayed on the Isle Of Man in 1975 and I vividly remember walking from Douglas to St Johns and finding the carriage shed full of old narrow gauge coaches - I wonder if any survived ?

From what i can gather it looks to be a bit of both as i believe that as it was a complete L&B coach that had survived into the 1970s they made it into this aesthetic of it being an old shed or hen house. But if they are keeping it as a surviving L&B piece and to have a hen house i don't think its entirely fair as again there are many surviving pre grouping slam door coaches that have been converted scattered everywhere.

If there is demand for the L&B to give it a better life and there is an attitude to break up some pre grouping standard gauge coaches from private owners to heritage railways it does beg the question, wouldn't we be better off with a fun diorama of a old victorian Standard gauge coach in a bad state with model chickens inside to represent this era of coaches that will make more casual visitors look up, than a coach which is incredibly rare and is better off at its original railway.


(I know its a Wikipedia article but it does explain the fate of the IOM coaches well and is used in the IOMSRA page on rolling stock also.)

Home

Isle of Man Steam Railway Supporters’ Association

www.iomsrsa.org

Isle of Man Railway rolling stock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As for your comment on the Isle of Man its on my Bucketlist! A lot has survived on that railway and depending how you look on it you could argue steam never ended there, just declined and evolved! For those coaches in 1975 it didn't exactly have a great outcome as some where burnt and destroyed that year. To save a massive essay on their fate i have left a link for the fate of their rolling stock. However i can say, unlike the L&B there is plenty of surviving artifacts left over on that islands railways.

One final thing. If anyone is visiting, or Volunteers at either the Lynton and Barnstaple railway or NRM can we have more of a concrete answer please on why the coach is there, is my assumptions correct of its context being in the NRM and what do members of either think on this matter?

 

[Wyrleybart]

I mean this is the thing, as the L&B is the complete antipode to the Welshpool and Llanfair railway where only the rolling stock mainly survives intact from the lines closure, there is probably more of a case to resurrect any surviving rolling stock to run on the line if they could get their hands on it. They have done some really good work on restoring pieces that have survived from coaches and making near full complete rebuilds of them in the process.

My personal favourite coach the Centre observation one, was in-fact nearly all broken up apart from the Observation section, and it was fully reincorporated into the 'rebuilt' coach which is a nice tribute to the former one. Was lucky enough when i visited to ride in that section of the coach but you have to be quick to claim it!

When it comes to the fate of the last 2 members that isn't on the L&B, i dont mind how no2 (the NRM one) is preserved going forwards providing its at its former home, however, i will say that number 14 should stay on the Ffestiniog as its just as much a part of that line in the near 70years of preservation as it was to the L&B in its official working lifetime. There is another interesting story in itself about how the coach came to that line with it having to be completley dismanteled in Devon and moved in segments to the Ffestiniog in the early days of its preservation, its a small but interesting story in the large Ffestiniog anthology of preservation!

An good resource on the fates of the L&B coaches if anyone is interested.

Lynton and Barnstaple Railway Trust - Heritage Carriages Project | The Lynton & Barnstaple Railway

Lynton and Barnstaple Railway passengers were very fortunate as they were able to travel in mainline carriages in miniature. These marvels of Victorian engineering, unique to Devon's premier narrow gauge railway were designed to offer visitors the best views of North Devon scenery from a train...

www.lynton-rail.org.uk

I am inclined to agree that the L&B coach at York should stay there provided it is under cover. It is probably very much easier to build a complete replica than to try and splice pieces of the old body onto a new frame. Boston Lodge ably demonstrates it's coachbuilding prowess on the Moving Pictures series.

 

[Pinza-C55]

A can imagine a few issues coming to mind, one being space another finding a standard gauge 'Garden coach' whatever that is ?

Perhaps it would be useful to understand its history and why the NRM has it ?

Also if it was restored to operational standard I'm the original paint on the outside would be lost and no-doubt most of the upholstered interior which I think would be a shame.

I found this old link from the L&BR visit to the NRM and it looks as though there is not much left of the upholstered seats anyway. But I think that even if it were not restored to running condition it would be better off exhibited at the L&BR instead of being in the NRM.

Special Visit to the NRM | The Lynton & Barnstaple Railway

Andrew Lowe recently sent us this report. On Thursday the 17th November, six friends and members of the Lynton & Barnstaple Railway Trust visited the National Railway Museum in York. The NRM contains a number of L&B artefacts, including coach 6992, and locomotive nameplates. However the NRM...

www.lynton-rail.org.uk

 

[Trainlog]

I am inclined to agree that the L&B coach at York should stay there provided it is under cover. It is probably very much easier to build a complete replica than to try and splice pieces of the old body onto a new frame. Boston Lodge ably demonstrates it's coachbuilding prowess on the Moving Pictures series.

I mean what rolling stock hasn't Boston lodge brought back from the dead Yeah they could build a replica of the coach and maybe some more rolling stock for the line as i can imagine when the line picks up in popularity perhaps there might have to be some similar stock to the new WHR roster aswell. However, i still think the original L&B should be an exhibit in Devon.

Talking of the extension...

Return to Parracombe Appeal - November Update | The Lynton & Barnstaple Railway

Christmas is coming and, with the concurrent financial pressure, the total funding for the Parracombe extension stands at just short of £688k. November has seen the lowest monthly total added to this appeal since it started in May but, all in all, this is still an excellent response from our...

www.lynton-rail.co.uk